Podcast Episode 106: Comedian and Fundraising Manager Dane Hiser on Letting Go of What Other People Think

Transcript: S7 Ep 106, Dane Hiser

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (00:00)

How are you doing?

Dane Hiser (00:01)

I'm good, how you going?

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (00:02)

Pretty good, whereabouts are you?

Dane Hiser (00:04)

I'm in Sydney, in Newtown.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (00:06)

You're in Newtown. Great.

Dane Hiser (00:07)

Yeah. I'm in Newtown. Yeah, what about yourself?

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (00:10)

Mosman.

Dane Hiser (00:10)

Nice. Okay, have you been there for long?

Okay, how you find it?

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (00:13)

It's okay. How long have you been in Newtown?

Dane Hiser (00:16)

Bit over two years, I think. Two, yeah, two and a half years, but I've lived in the Inner West most of my post-Penrith life, 'cause I grew up out west in Penrith. But I've been here, like, in the West for about fifteen years, like Alexandria, Erskineville, different parts of the West, and that's good.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (00:32)

Nice, nice. What appeals to you about the inner west?

Dane Hiser (00:36)

I like being close to, like, close to the action, if I'm honest. Like, you know, I do comedy and, you know, even if I don't, like, just be close to shows and things going on, and I just find a more vibrant lifestyle. I love Newtown because it's so eclectic. I can walk up King Street any morning and see multiple different things and walk in any shops and see different knick-knacks and things and meet different people, and yeah, I just love the eclectic and quite overall friendly nature of it. Yeah.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (01:02)

Absolutely. For those who are listening from another place, maybe the other side of the world, how would we explain Newtown in particular?

Dane Hiser (01:11)

Or how would you explain Newtown? I would say think, think op shops, vintage stores, think, yeah, crystals and meditation and, yeah, whole lots of knick-knacks and weak candles and lots of candles, lots of candles, lots of oils, lots of healing stuff, but also really cool fashion and,

yeah, a few bars, and it's quite, yeah, I can't compare, I can't think of something to compare it to, but it's quite a hip, a nice place, and I don't know why I'm in a hip place, I don't really fit that vibe. But no, it's good fun.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (01:41)

Some of those areas have an alternative element to them as well, right?

Dane Hiser (01:46)

Yes, that's right. Yeah. So all, all different walks of life, different communities, different people. It's something I needed. Like, I always, I don't know, the, I, I'm exposed to more of life here. More difference and, yeah, more variety. Lots of variety, sometimes too much, but still variety.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (02:02)

Absolutely. The contrast, you say that you were in Penrith a while ago. The context for those listening elsewhere: Western Sydney, at least years ago, it was very suburban, and there was, basically, it was your typical suburb, so there wasn't as much to do or to see compared to the centre of the city.

Dane Hiser (02:28)

Totally. Yeah, totally. And I actually moved to Penrith when I was halfway through year six, growing up. So I really moved there, what, like, make that forty-odd, forty-five years ago there. And it's such a, such different, like you said, when we moved there it wasn't even suburban, it was more country. It was a six when we were there. But it definitely has developed, and Penrith and Parramatta and Blacktown, all those areas have really shot up a lot.

Lots more high-rises and apartments and theatres and restaurants, and definitely change, but yeah. I just, I just like being closer to, I don't know, to more transport. Like, I don't drive as well too, I don't want to drive. So it's great area for this, whereas Penrith, kinda need to drive if you were living there. So yeah, d— there're a lot of perks for me, but it doesn't work for everybody. But yeah.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (03:13)

Don't drive either. It's interesting hearing that you also don't drive. So let's dive in and explain to the listener what exactly you do.

Dane Hiser (03:22)

Yeah, cool. So I work for, I work as a fundraising manager. So I started initially a non-profit over twenty-five years ago now. I started the Vinnies, which is St Vincent de Paul Society. They look after a wide range of people, from the homeless to disadvantaged, helping people at home, domestic violence services, op shops, all those kinds of things. Salvation Army, Smith Family are kind of their comparatives. And that was in the marketing space.

So I worked there for 10 years in marketing. And how I actually got that job was very unconventional. It was before the days of internet and email a lot. Email had come around but wasn't huge. And my grandfather actually volunteered at Vinnies, and he was delivering packs of food for people at the home to help them out, out, and food and bits of clothing and whatever they needed to help them out. And he was reading the Catholic Weekly. It's a Catholic organisation, they have a weekly newspaper. He was reading that.

Saw a little ad for a promotions coordinator at Vinnies, and he literally cut it out of the Catholic Weekly, put it in an envelope, remember those, and put them in the post. And with a little note: Dane, you might be interested in this. I applied, and within about two or so months, I was hired, and I stayed there for 10 years. And I moved from promotions coordinator to then head of community corporate relations, which covered the marketing, the fundraising and all those aspects of it.

And yeah, amazing experience. But it was all from just a letter in the mail from Pop.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (04:43)

That, there is so much in that, because of how you heard about it. And we need to translate op shops. I believe Americans call it thrift stores. There are pretty much second-hand stores. And you'll get some second-hand stores that are trying to be as cheap as possible, but then some second-hand stores get very fashionable as well, especially in the age of sustainable clothing or trying to rehome nice clothes.

So it's either of those markets. That's what we're talking about there, but your organisation does a lot more than that as well.

Dane Hiser (05:17)

That's right. Yeah. The shops were very much their, like you said, they were their, their billboards really, their outward-facing presence in the community. But then their, their main work was hostels, homeless shelters, look after people with mental health complications, domestic violence situations, like I mentioned, a whole range of things. And op shops now, over the years, it's probably all over the country too, similar, where people go there, like you said, for, for really good finds, and

I know Vinnies every now and then would hold fashion parades at their stores and really make it high level and boutique and have some people come along and maybe pay a higher price that could be a donation for the charity, because you get some really exclusive custom-made designs. So yeah, so it's very appealing in that sense, and a great organisation. Could I tell you how I actually, like, my first two weeks there?

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (06:05)

Yes, yes.

Dane Hiser (06:06)

So this is, I will always remember this as the ultimate sign of a manager trusting an employee and giving employees space and room to do what they do and be who they are. So when I s— was started, I was as a promotions coordinator and just looking after media promo stuff. It was fairly low level, but it was a great entry spot. Lucy, the manager, sat me down after a tour on, like, the first or second day and said, look,

you've had a look around, Dane, you look at all the materials, take your time, a couple of weeks, to, you know, soak everything in, and then we'll have a chat. And if you have an idea or something to share that you think you could ta— you could bring to us, let me know. I said, okay, cool, I'll do that. Two weeks later, went back into her office and she said, what do you think? Do you have an idea? I said, yeah, I do, actually. So in Australia, the Vinnies, our main appeals are winter and Christmas appeals.

And they're both launched primarily in the city, and they're normally launched with a member of government or a, at a hostel with a, a famous name or somebody with a connection to the cause, and it's a fairly standard type launch. It's great, gets some media, and it kicks off the appeal for those seasons. And I said to Lucy, but there, we haven't had a regional launch. Like, our biggest presence is in regional areas. What about we do a regional launch? And she said, what do you have in mind?

And at that time, a movie had been released in Australia called The Dish. I don't know if you remember that movie? I remember—

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (07:30)

After

that, where was it though?

Dane Hiser (07:32)

When?

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (07:33)

Where, where was it set? Do you remember where—

Dane Hiser (07:35)

Parkes. So it's set in Parkes. Yeah. So I, so The Dish, right? So it just came out the cinemas about three months or maybe five months before that interview. And I said, well, it's about to come to home viewing, to DVD or whatever at that stage, or VHS-DVD crossover. I said, why don't we go to Parkes and we play The Dish under the dish? And we launch it there. We do a big promo.

The primary, the primary option isn't, sorry, the primary objective isn't fundraising. It's getting the community together, raising awareness for Vinnies. What do you think? And she literally said, I love it, go for it. I'd only been there, like, less than two weeks, and she said, go for it. And within four weeks' time after that, I was in Parkes, holding a sleepover for 800 people. I called it A Night Under the Stars. I had gone to Parkes two weeks before that to do a, a site check and to get,

you know, butchers could donate, you know, sausages, bakers to donate bread, a whole lot of stuff. Screen put up, all this thing. I went to Village Roadshow and rented films, other films, 'cause we didn't just play The Dish, we played other family-friendly films over the whole night. And yeah, eight hundred people. We got fifty media spots all over, like, metro media, regional media, and it did exactly what it was meant to, to do. It's saying, we're here, we're big in the regional areas,

and this is just something unique and different, and it went great, and it's something I'm always proud of. But more importantly, I was just, I was nobody at that stage. Like, I wasn't, see, I didn't have a big CV of things like that in the past. I said, what about we do it? And she said, yep, go for it, and I did it.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (09:06)

What I'm seeing in that is, yes, it created awareness. You also brought the community together. So you were connecting with anybody, not just those who were desperately in need, but also, it has an element of, it reminds me of those stunts Branson would do. You know, you were getting out there and doing something different, something visible.

Dane Hiser (09:30)

Yeah, yeah. And that is something I think that some charities are missing these days, is those big outward-facing launches. And I know we're in a different area now, we're in a different time now, post-COVID, but I do think that we're, we're much more digitally separated. Now, like, even this is done on a Zoom, which is great, love it, all fine. But how awesome would it be if we're in a cafe or something together, face to face, in real life? This is just the way it is now.

And it's fine, but you can't be outward and facing. And I really want more people to get out and about, connect with other people in live community settings, enjoy each other's company. When they can see them, when they, they know they're there and it's a real presence, it's tangible. And we can't let that go. And the further down this rabbit hole we go with AI and all that, we'll get more and more separated, more digital, you know, isolation, loneliness is really on the rise. We just need to find ways to gather together and share.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (10:22)

Gather together, and look, we could go into a studio or a different space later. We'll talk about that. I'd be happy to record in person later. Most of my recordings have been online. But, and that has been handy. Most of my guests were overseas. You're actually in the minority, being in Australia, on this show.

Dane Hiser (10:40)

Wow.

Wow, great. That, that wasn't a criticism, by the way, about the show. This is great. But it's just a, a nature of generally, like, and it is good though. You mentioned, like, you communicate all over the world with people, and this stuff is excellent for that, and it brings the world together in its own way. But in a weird way it's a bit of a, also a separator at the same time. More people working from home, hybrid working. Yeah, but no, it's great to connect. Either way we can do it.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (11:04)

Any way we can, but you're, a spot on. I totally agree. I came from an NFP space, I was with volunteers most of my life. Yes. So my context, very briefly, because this episode is about you, my brief context is that from my late teens, early twenties, I was involved in a voluntary public speaking group. My grandparents had been in leadership in that a lot. So it was

very much about bringing people together, letting everybody grow, which is countercultural these days. So I can even relate to how you've been working for a charity that wants to give instead of just seeing what we can get. But also, I grew up before that in religious spaces where there were lots of volunteers, but I'd say the public speaking space

was my main thing, and I dipped my toe a little bit into Rotary. So I saw all of that. But I appreciate just as much that NFPs, the not-for-profits, that are trying to make sure that everybody is okay. So it's amazing that you're doing this and bringing people together. What I'm amazed by with this PR activity that you described is, it's going back to the basics.

Maybe we still need the algorithm, and there are experts who will let you know how to make the most of AI, because, let's face it, if we don't use it, our competitors still will be. However, these simple things, anyone can still do a gathering out at a dish or wherever.

Dane Hiser (12:37)

Yep. Can I tell you a, a little twist in that Dish story as well, which actually highlights the positivity of people getting together? Is that at the end of the day, we didn't play The Dish.

And I tell you why. It's because in the lead-up to it, I did, we were, I got the movies from Village Roadshow. I'd contacted, first and foremost, Working Dog, who made the film, and they make Have You Been Paying Attention?, a bunch of great stuff today. Went to them, and it was just a, it was a timing thing. Like, they'd, they'd s— they, they were on board, they sent me merch, they sent all their stuff, big posters, signed posters, but I didn't have the signature from them saying, yes, go ahead to play the complete film.

Like, the, the day it started and right up to the screening, I didn't have it. And I knew they were on board, they were great and very supportive and cooperative. But I knew that I was still waiting on an email saying, yes, confirmed, you definitely, you can definitely play that tonight. And I s— I sat with Lucy, the manager, and I said, what do you think we should do? And she put it back and said, what do you think? And I looked around and I said, do you know what? Let's err on the side of caution. Let's not play it.

There would be no issue with it. They wouldn't, they're not gonna come sue a charity or whatever. But it was like, as it's protocol. If we don't have that, we don't have a sign-off. But I was confident in making that decision because people were there regardless. Nobody cared that we didn't play it.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (13:53)

Okay. I'm seeing so many lessons in every step of your story. This is amazing, because I understand the feeling of wanting to get confirmations in writing through something, to make sure, just to cover yourself. But knowing people simply wanted to be there to be there. And knowing, essentially, it could be described as

a mistake, an accidental one, but people make mistakes of various forms, and we worry about what people will think. But you went ahead, you did the event, and you knew that nobody cared that something was going differently than planned.

Dane Hiser (14:31)

Yeah, yeah. And I have to admit, even I, like, I, I got the vibe of it, I made the call, and even I was amazed that at the end of the day, nothing. No issue. And then we had a couple, like, yeah, are you playing the film? We say, no, it, it didn't work out, but we got some other great films. All good. Yeah, no issue at all.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (14:48)

You had something. Do you find that the priority is to simply bring people together before waiting for everything to be perfect?

Dane Hiser (14:56)

Yes, yes. I, I, I, I can, I do procrastinate a lot, and sometimes I can get in my own head planning something. And I've learned I can plan it to the nth degree, and then that delays the, delays the production, delays whatever. A lot of times you have to go by instinct and think on the fly and go, let's do this, because I know that will be right. And if it's not, we can correct. So yeah, I do put getting people there and having the event over maybe some of the

coordination issues or, like, the perfection, sorry, the perfectionist side you were talking about. And I've also embraced the fact that I'm not perfect and no one's perfect. And my, my, I'm characterised by someone who isn't perfect, someone who does fumble, a bit lost for words, and because I'm very much in the moment, want to connect with people. And you can get too excited. So people don't come to me expecting perfection. They come expecting a, like, a great event, a clear message, and

beyond that, just, like, celebrating of, of what we're doing, positivity. And over the recent years, silent positivity has been lost from different things. That's bringing that back and being more outward-facing. So yeah, definitely the thing you just said before, too, about the idea of always worrying what others think. And you s— you said it in the context of that event and the charity, but that's always been my biggest thing. I've always been thinking about what other people will think of me,

rather than how I'm doing, and I would just, I would create a persona, a reality outside my world, which wasn't actually the case. You know, I would think, someone's so worried about me. I said that, are they annoyed by that? Why haven't I heard that person for a couple of weeks? Why haven't I, moved on for this job and I've lost most of my contacts there? All this stuff. And it always been about people pleasing and making sure other people are okay. And

probably from partly a selfish point of view rather than selfless. I mean, I wanted to help people, I always have, but it was like, I wanted that gratitude and thanks, because for a long time I thought that was all I could do. It's like, help people and solve their problems, be an ear, be a shoulder, and offer advice and consult or whatever that might be. But, you know, I'm not the one that'll go out and work in IT and do the technical stuff and that, make buildings, and I thought, no, this is my place, be there, help people.

But then I was relying too much on that. And when you become a people pleaser, you get walked over, and often unintentionally too. Because you're always the guy that will be there and do that thing. And you've got to realise, and I have to realise, you have to look after yourself first. And that's been my biggest mistake over so many years. I have to be the priority. Because if I'm not the priority, I can't help the people I want to help. I still want to help people. I still want to, want people to like me. I mean, comedy, because I want applause, I, attention, I want validation.

I'm here 'cause they want some validation. You know, I'm on a camera talking about this. So, like, I feed my, I feed off that, but I wanna make sure I'm good before I can actually make a proper impact, because that's the only way it's actually gonna happen.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (17:44)

Absolutely. We'll pivot to the comedy in a moment, but you're in a large organisation that connects with all sorts of external individuals, external groups, to all help each other, and there'd be so much space for a people pleaser. What sorts of things have happened that show the listener, that show us, okay, you

wanted to please everybody, or maybe other people wanted you to be perfect for them or do too much, anything like that? How has this manifested over the years?

Dane Hiser (18:19)

Yeah. It, it's probably manifested over the last five to seven years in particular. So I think I included in my message to you, but obviously I'll talk about now. Yes, about five or so years ago I developed a really bad limp in my left leg. And I didn't know what it was, no idea. Someone at work noticing I was just walking with a limp. They said, what's going on? I said, okay, yeah, I'm not sure, actually. So I checked it out, I went to physio after physio, couldn't work out what it was.

After about eight months of trying to work out what it was, I went to a sports physician in Moore Park in Sydney. And it's the first time I've gone anywhere with the word sports in the title. Good, sports were not my thing. And they're still not, I'll be very clear on that. Probably obvious anyway. And I, and she said, I don't think it, she said, I don't think it's physical or muscular or skeletal. She said, I think it could be neurological. So she sent me to

a, a neurologist in Bondi. And within five minutes of meeting me, he worked out what it was. It was dystonia. So what dystonia is, is the involuntary twisting and contraction of the muscles. And what that was doing was, I love walking, and I always have, always will, and I walk to work every day. But when I walked, because of a neuro condition, my leg was swinging out. Like a cowboy, but not a cool cowboy.

It was a swing out, and I was not, not noticing it. So what I got appeared as bursitis, that inflammation of the muscles, and, but it was actually this neurological thing that was forcing my, my inner, my muscles to contract, like, to spasm, and that formed my walking. So he put me on some medication, and they tried it for a little while. I was given something called Madopar, which also treated, used to treat people with Parkinson's.

Whenever you hear a word like that, a big thing, you, you freak out about it a bit, but it was, it's quite separate from it. And a, a companion called Artane. And really sorry, I've just realised I forgot to plug my laptop in, I got that notice. Sorry about this.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (20:12)

Have more coffee.

Dane Hiser (20:13)

I thought I prepared everything, but not quite.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (20:15)

This is a very relaxed recording with an Aussie, I can—

Dane Hiser (20:19)

Good.

Good. I like it. Yeah, so it wasn't, so yeah, so what he, what he, sorry, Doves, I'll go back to that. So Artane accompanied the Madopar. So Madopar and Artane, they were things that were normally given to give s— me some balance and keep everything at bay in terms of the neuro impulses. But after about eight months or so he wasn't that happy with where it's progressing and still wanted to know

what really is the source of it. There was no genetic link, there was no really solid link to tie it to anything. So he sent me to a movement disorder panel at Westmead Hospital. This is literally 8:30 on, like, a Tuesday morning. I'm in the bowels of the Westmead Hospital in Sydney. I'm in a conference room. I walk in a conference room, there's twelve neuro, neurological movement disorder specialists sitting in a semicircle, me in the front in a chair.

My doctor from Bondi behind me, because I was in Westmead, he was in Bondi, he couldn't be stuffed travelling. And it was in the middle of COVID too, by the way, so all that was going on.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (21:16)

Which year was COVID? So twenty twenty, twenty-one?

Dane Hiser (21:19)

So it was, it lauded, so it was twenty-two. Yeah, I tried, we, it was around twenty-two. As I was kinda easing off, but it was still very much in play. Right. Anyway, so he was talking about my condition, sharing with the, the movement guys. And I answered some things, I moved around, showed them, you know, my movements or whatever. I went out and they had a chat about it for, like, yeah, twenty minutes or whatever. They came out, one of them came out and said, look.

Your doctor will take you through the full story, but basically, basically we think that your situation, dystonia cannot be cured typically. It's typically incurable. It's not fatal, and it's not going to be a, like, a, a real fast deterioration. It will just always live for me and I'll always just move a bit differently. But, but he said, we actually think it's because of the risperidone, which are mental health medication that I had been on for twenty years.

Wow. So yeah. So I was assigned that in my twenties, and I was still using up to my forties because it was keeping things at bay. And I didn't see issue with it. Parents, family thought, yeah, well, he's fine, keeping things at bay. But, but they said, we think it could be that. So you have two options. Option one was to go give your blood to pathology and do genetic testing and then find out where it's from, link to things.

And they said the issue with that genetic testing is, A, it's very expensive, B, it takes a long time, and C, it could reveal things in there that aren't really an issue but just pop up as trigger words that you get more worried and anxious about. Or option B is to go off the medication you've been on for twenty years.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (22:52)

Ask, what does that medication do?

Dane Hiser (22:54)

So that medication is for anxiety and depression. So in my early twenties, I was put on th— those particular, risper—, risperidone. After a few different trials of other anxious drugs, my issue then was, I've always had, since my late teens, a, a twitch. It's a, it's a twitch that is not a involuntary spasm. It is a hard-to-control message from my brain to my body to move.

It's essentially a restlessness and uncomfortability in my own skin. So I've always kind of never been comfortable in myself, and my body moves. And it could be simple things. It could be simple twitching the arm, lately I do that with my finger. And it's things that I know I can do it and I can stop, but I can't stop thinking about it, and then I do it. And I have two options every day. I can either hide it from people and, like, just stay perfectly still, you know, show no signs of it, or I can let it move and let it twitch.

Both of those are bad, because I hated the idea of being judged and the idea of people not liking me or thinking there's something worrying about me or whatever, that whole outward perception. And also, if I held it all in, at the end of the day you'd be so sore because you've been holding your body in. But then if you do it, you'll also be sore because you've been moving your body around. So the anxiety was the OCD part of that. And that was the main thing, that repetitive part of OCD. The other really bad thing that got me in my twenties was depression.

So people in their twenties, I think people around the world can relate, is that if you leave, like, say, school or college, that whole growing-up period, you leave your, your friends a lot too, because they get partnered up, they meet people and they go travelling the world or creating families, doing whatever, they connect and go up. And a lot of my friends did that and I didn't. And I'm going, well, what's, what does that mean for me? I hadn't really worked out what I was into, like, job-wise, I hadn't really figured myself out.

And I just got lost in my stasis. So I was at home, which is fine in your twenties, to be at home. But I was still at home while my friends were, you know, getting married and having weddings and having kids and all these things, or, you know, getting really exciting jobs and travelling the world. And I just kind of lost my clique, and they went and no one really replaced them for a bit, and people just go live their own lives. So I was really unsure of my place, and I wasn't meeting people, I wasn't meeting women, I wasn't doing any of that. So I got really

inward, I got really worried about the world around me, what people thought of me, thought it wasn't enough. The worst thing about depression in itself is, most of the time you feel bad for being depressed because you shouldn't be depressed. I have a good family, I was in a good place at home, I was on my way to some kind of career that was fine, or relatively healthy, I was in a good space in life. Why am I depressed? Working out why you're depressed is the hardest part about being depressed.

And I think the, the why has been all around that. I've been focusing too much on what other people thought, other than w— who I want to be, who I want to project into the world.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (25:41)

That right there is powerful, because anybody can end up feeling that way, whether they have great career success, whether they make lots of money or they don't, but they might be getting titles or achievements, or perhaps not doing any of that, but they're in any sort of space where they wonder, I have what I need, or some things are going okay.

The question of, why do I feel this way? That's a big question.

Dane Hiser (26:10)

Yeah. Yeah. Yep. So that would, that was the not-so-short answer to why I was on those drugs. And I stayed on those drugs because, like I said, it kept things at bay. Now, when I say at bay, you never, mental health issues never go. You know, you'll always have them somewhere in the back of your head, in your back of your body or whatever, they'll always be with you. But obviously it's all about management and, like you said, acceptance of who you are and what you have and all those things.

It, it will never go. So it was, it was kept okay, but I still had the compulsions. I still was worried about what people thought if I was moving my body weird. And I'd do little hacks, like, I remember at school or uni, sit at the back of the bus. If I'm at the back of the bus, it's not because I'm in the cool sli— cool kids' seats or whatever. It's more, I don't want to be in the front of the bus where people behind me might see my head move and my arm go or whatever. Back of the cinema, back of the whatever, always go to the back so you're not seen.

Other hack is that if I'm having a chat with you, I'm off camera, so my hands aren't being shown, so I might just do that with my pinkies when I'm sitting here, but I'm not doing it in my head.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (27:11)

Sorry, those who are listening to audio, what's happening to your hands?

Dane Hiser (27:16)

Yeah, sure. So just as an example, is, like, my, my hack was to hide the compulsion to move by twitching parts of my body or place that people can't see in that moment. So if I was sitting face to face with someone, for example, I might arch my back a little bit. A little twitch my spine, a little bit of that, right? And I could do it very subtly, just to satisfy my mind that my body had moved. That's the, the restless nature. This is it, right? Fine. But I wouldn't do, like, a head twitch like that, which I do often.

But I wouldn't do that. So I'd always, what do you call, like, adjust to the environment I'm in and to twitch or move a part of my body that wasn't as seen. It might be my foot under the table, whatever it is. So I, my body's moving, but I try to have that image of, I'm fine, I'm normal, I'm okay, I've got nothing going on. And that was all about being judged.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (28:03)

Amazing. It was all about being judged. Do you ever, are you still on the journey of letting go of what people think about how your condition looks?

Dane Hiser (28:14)

Still on the journey, but I'm, I'm, I mean, you never want to say you're there in terms of this stuff, because you're always learning and developing. But no, I, like, and to say I no longer care, obviously no longer say I don't care what people think. Of course you do, right? But, but it, it no longer is what holds me back. Because that's the whole thing, is you've got to realise that you are who you are and there is nothing wrong with the world outside. They are not thinking about you or worried about you or angry with you or whatever you might think.

Unless it's actually there and it's evidence you can see. All you can control is, you can't control how other people see you, but you can't control who you are to other people. And if you're you, if you're you, then you can't do any better or worse or different than you.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (28:53)

Be you.

Dane Hiser (28:54)

Yeah. Because no one can argue with that. Like, if you've got, if there's an intention or you're, you're scheming or you're up to something or you're, you, you're being judged because of some other thing that you're maybe putting on a facade or you're being a big boss and you're bossing people around. Just be you, because who's gonna have a go at that? Because you can't change that. Like, that has to be, I don't know if that makes sense, but, like, you, y— you can't ha— the whole idea of, like, being authentic is show you, show your flaws, be vulnerable.

How can you, I guess, how can you, how can you worry about being vulnerable when you actually just, like, you can't change you, if that makes sense. I guess they're, they're base elements, I guess.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (29:29)

Absolutely. At least if you're being as true to yourself, your good purpose and how you are built, then of course we want to evolve, as in we want to get out there despite our insecurities, that sort of thing. But if we don't try to be fake, if we don't try to look perfect when nobody is perfect, then people can trust that more.

Dane Hiser (29:53)

That's right. And also too, when you're worried that somebody is thinking about, or is worried about you or angry or whatever, and you try to please them, again back to that people pleaser thing, and you're not okay, you become a liability, because you are always just looking at what's falling around you, what needs to work. Whereas you're employed to do a job and to focus on that job and get that job done. Whereas my response was always, yeah, but what about this? What about this part of the organisation? What about this?

And that was a superpower in a way, where they say anxiety can be a power because you do overthink things, and that is needed at times to spot things in organisation. Which is why I'm now going, well, I'm not gonna be this, the anxious, anxious guy leading company or what, this and that. But I can be a guy who can speak on a Zoom or go do a conference or whatever and talk about just not worrying about, because if you're, if you're trying to, like, if you're trying to counter a perception,

you're deliberately lying to yourself and to the other person. So you're scheming within yourself and you're, you're always, but if you just try and go, well, I can't fix what I can't fix, and you just stay in the moment, and I can still be at a charity, could still be helping people, could still be working and it's, be great fundraising campaigns, then that's all you need to do. Like, I, yeah. I feel like some people, when they put on a facade, it's not just to protect them, but it's also, they're pulling a bit of a swifty on everyone else.

So they're not really being that honest on either regard, if that makes sense.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (31:14)

We used to have the phrase fake it till you make it, but people who've made it aren't faking it these days.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (31:20)

I'm so keen to ask about the comedy. What do you do with comedy?

Dane Hiser (31:26)

Yeah, so I, I've s— I started doing comedy a ridiculous number of years ago. It was so long ago that I should be funnier by now. So I often don't like to tell people how long, but it was a lot, i— I worked out that I probably actually did my first set, I'll tell you about that, that was unconventional, as you can probably guess, in two thousand eight or two thousand nine. So the, the first one was,

I'd never even, like, pre to those years, I'd never considered comedy, never considered doing it, but always loved it. Always loved live. My focus was on live comedy, live music, live whatever. You need to be, again, in the room with people to get the vibe of it. Going to the movie theatres, people laughing, reacting, all that. So I was working at Vinnies at that time, and I was always thinking about the idea of it. And I'd been to the Melbourne Comedy Festival, which is one of the three biggest comedy festivals in the world.

The three big international ones change a little bit now, but used to be Melbourne, Montreal and Edinburgh. So Melbourne was big. And I would go to Melbourne just as a punter, someone in the audience, for about, like, I, I went for five years in a row, I went for about eight or nine, eight or nine days. And in that time I would see thirty shows. Because I go all in, and there's no other way of doing it. So I would see thirty shows, but I just love the environment. So

one day at Vinnies after work I went with a mate over the road to the Petersham Bowling Club to have a beer and to chat and hang out. And he was a muso. So he was big in the eighties and nineties with certain big bands. He was working with the organisation and we became good mates. And he was still doing music, and we were kind of just, like, hanging out, being creative, and yeah, just, we had similar minds. And he said to me, he said, are you, so are you still into this whole comedy thing? Do you want to give it a go? 'Cause I think you should. And I go,

I'm not sure, but yeah, maybe, maybe I, you know what, why not? I'll give it a go. At that moment he stood up, he went inside to get two beers, he came out, it took a little bit longer than normal, maybe about ten minutes, put the beers down and said, right, you and me, six weeks from now, us here, we do a show, you do the comedy, I do the music, as in he does the music. And I went, okay. Okay, I f— freak out internally, but okay, I'll give it a go.

Whatever reason, the timeline shifted a bit. So it was maybe about two months after that. So during that time, I just wrote and wrote and wrote, wrote as much as I could about past, family, history. I knew there were plenty of stories to mine, because I was the centre of all the stories. I'm very, I'm, I'm uncoordinated, I'm sometimes erratic, hard to understand. I've got a lot of quirks and I draw a lot of quirky people to me. So there's always a lot of things that happened in my life that, from various different realms of my personality.

There's always funny stuff around me. So I wrote it all down, and it came to the time to do the show. Now, I don't know if you know about starting out in comedy, but people n— you would do normally three to five minutes at an open mic club, just to see if you like the stage, if you like talking to people, if it was working for you, and if you had something worthwhile to go follow some kind of pursuit in, in comedy. I didn't do that. Instead, I wrote and wrote and wrote, I prepared the show.

So we started the show, we had family and friends, but also we put it out in the community, we posted it around, we put any ads up we could. We got about, like, thirty, forty people there. Andy came out and did about twenty minutes of music. I came out and I didn't do the five-minute opener, I did forty-five minutes.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (34:42)

Wow.

Dane Hiser (34:43)

First time ever on stage, ever doing, Joe, any form of comedy, forty-five minutes. Then we had a break, came back, Andy did another twenty of music, I did another thirty. An hour and fifteen minutes in total, where normally you do five.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (34:56)

You dove into the deep end.

Dane Hiser (34:58)

Yeah.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (34:59)

Yeah.

Are you glad you started at that extreme?

Dane Hiser (35:04)

Yes. Why? One, it gives a great story, 'cause no one ever, no one has that story. I don't think you look at the biggest guys in the world and think, yeah, my first set was an hour. No. Of course it wasn't. And also too, it was all my doing, 'cause I could have, in that time, even though that, that challenge was put on me, I could have in that time wrote, gone to open mic clubs, tested it, then did the show. No.

I didn't know the scene. Also, in my defence, I don't really, I didn't really know what the scene was about. I knew I just wanted to do comedy. I thought, well, mate's given me a challenge. I'm gonna do it. We'll get family and friends along. And it was good. I mean, it was terrible, but it was good. You know, like, I was nervous, I was shaky, or had notes and all that. But people liked it, and people, my friends and family, sometimes painfully honest with me, particularly family. So you know how well or you did or didn't do, and it went fine.

But then after that we did a few shows at some other, we did a few more at the Petersham Bowlo. Then we went to another one across the road in another hotel in, also in Petersham area. And yeah, that's how I started. And the first time I actually did proper, for lack of better word, open mic comedy was at a place called the Laugh Garage in Sydney. Sadly no longer runs anymore. It was a great place, it gives lots of spots to up-and-coming comics.

And from then I would then do the, the circuit and d— do the five minutes. But no, I started with forty-five minutes, break, and then thirty minutes.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (36:24)

To translate some of this for the overseas listeners, the bowlo, it's a bowling club. And we're talking lawn bowls, right? But a lot of— Yes.

Dane Hiser (36:34)

Lawn bowls.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (36:35)

Yes, but a lot of people go to those venues just for the bistro, for entertainment, and not for the lawn bowls. But it's very much one of the, it's kind of, it serves the same function as a community hall in some way.

Dane Hiser (36:49)

Yeah, that's right. Yeah. And also another thing to it too, it's not really a comedy venue. No. But that, they'll, like, a, or a music. They'll have, like, b— like, people come and play music there. But it's not a theatre. They have a little nice theatre there now downstairs. But it's not, like, it, that's not what it's geared to do. So we were going to an improper place not suited for the job. We're an improper person not suitable for the job. And it would just fly, throw it all in there and see what happens. But I do, I do not regret it, 'cause, like I said, the story and all that.

But it's a trial by fire, because after that one show, the nerves were gone. I mean, yes, there was still a lot of work to do and all that stuff, but it was, it was the best introduction I think I could have had, because it fit me. It worked for me, and yeah, I'm not recommending it to anybody, but for me, that's just the way I chose. So then after that, I went, like I said, went to the proper clubs, did spots.

Had a little bit of luck. I was in, like, a, a competition called Quest for the Best that was run by, at a, like, a local pub that had a comedy show there, and it was in a big town hall, and I became second or third in that comp, but it was a family-and-friends-vote-for-you thing. But it gave you a bit of publicity, a bit of, like, a, you can do this, kind of step up. And then yeah, I just started working it, working it around. I did, remember,

one of my earliest gigs at the la— Laugh Garage, the shtick I took, the shtick I did is self-deprecating, which I do a bit of now, but I've tried to put that aside a little bit more now. It's self-deprecating, it's acknowledging that I'm different, I'm the elephant in the room, I'm whatever. Address it, have fun with it, make fun with it, and just, just enjoy it. But when I was doing it initially, the set was more about, from a woe-is-me kind of angle, like a bit of a

complaining kind of, why is this? I'm like this, but making jokes, but, like, more from a pity kind of point of place, right? And one night there was a very famous comic called Stewart Francis, who's big in Canada. And he's a one-liner comic. He's still around today. If you go to YouTube and start type in Stewart Francis, you'll see him. He's amazing. He's great. He was there as a guest spot or headline or something that night. He saw me do the set.

And after, he said, look, that was great. Jokes were great. Stories were great. But why don't you flip it? Why don't, instead of being woe is me about it, why don't you be cocky, confident, this is why I'm the very best? This is why the ladies love me, blah, blah, blah. Why don't you be that? And I'm a very suggestionable person. So if I'm given something like that, I will run with it hard. And I did. And that was my persona, set after set, was being confident about it.

You know, that's why the ladies love me, blah, blah, blah, doing all that. And, and when it worked, it really, really worked. And a bulk of the time, maybe seventy, seventy-five, it worked like that. Other times it didn't, if people weren't really in on the joke, I guess. Most were, 'cause you can tell. You could tell that I was being cocky, but it was a facade, but a deliberate, intentional one. You could tell. But yeah. But most of the time it worked, and that's the persona I ran with. But that's also the persona

I'm shifting away from too, because I've realised that you're only going to be properly confident in yourself if you are, but you're not putting up a facade or a blockage. But that worked for me and actually gave me confidence on stage, 'cause you were getting the laughs. I would have, like, I'd be the best set of night many nights, and it was the most euphoric feeling. So I went from there to running a comedy room, 'cause that's obviously what you do after that.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (40:06)

Absolutely. When people were not in on the joke, as you say, is it that people thought you were putting on a fake facade for no reason? Were people thinking it was genuinely your ego? What was happening there?

Dane Hiser (40:23)

I, I th— I think it was, it was probably more, more the former. It was more that they can see it and I was covering or, or something. I think it's, it was more like, or almost more like a, can we laugh at this, type of thing. Most times, I don't really know, 'cause, like, in, in the, the broad share of it, it worked. And, and even those nights, like, the twenty-five-odd percent where I say didn't work as well, that means it didn't work as well. Like, I didn't, I d— I don't think there was ever, there was a couple maybe that

we, we just well and truly tanked. I mean, everyone has tanky moments, and I've had my fair share. Like, I'm, I'll say that, obviously. So it wasn't like that, it wasn't even like, it went really well, didn't work at all. A lot of nights also too, I noticed from running rooms too, is that you can have an audience, like, thirty people who are engaged, sitting there smiling, liking it and laughing, but they're laughing quietly or they're just smirking. And they can walk out there at the end and say, that was great.

And all time on stage you could be going, what's wrong with these people? No one, are they liking this? Is this working at all? You'd often think you tank when you're off stage. Then you need to have a comic going, no, it's the back of the room, man. That back there, that group, they loved you. And there was this weird kind of thing bouncing around the room, but you can never really tell. So yeah, a lot of times that's, you get in your own head. So times when you think you didn't connect, you did. Other times you think you did great, you walked off and you didn't. You look at tape, at a tape, you go, no, that was terrible.

Or someone says, no, you didn't seem right. You don't know until you really get off the stage, I guess.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (41:48)

We can all learn these lessons for other forms of showing up beyond comedy. Even, I know that we need to connect with people in person in communities. However, a lot of people want or need to talk online to promote a brand, to spread the word about something, anything like that. And we get in our heads just like that. What stuck with me is, you're saying there were some people who appreciated what you were doing.

But they're not the loudest. But they still like what you're doing and need it. So we need to have a bit of faith that, that the right people will appreciate what you are doing, and it doesn't have to be everybody.

Dane Hiser (42:28)

Yeah, that's exactly it. And also too, I was putting on a character, and, like, I've seen character comedy fly or die. It could be, if you put, if you go, if you take a swing and you put a, bring a big character out, or you're an alternative comic and you go weird sometimes for the sake of weird, you can either, like, be the best act of the night or the worst, depending on what the vibe in the room is. So yeah, like, that, that's more perspective. But also for me, it was realising that wasn't, because I wasn't natural on stage and I was being this other person.

It also meant I wasn't being what I thought was a comic, someone who could relax into it, have jokes, but have them crafted in a, a story, a narrative, and not make it feel like, I'm telling a joke now, say joke. Get laugh, get clap from joke, say joke. Though I want to bust out of that routine a bit more, realising that I have changed. I don't, I don't feel right in that stand-up space anymore. I want to be off in this kind of space talking to people,

doing solo shows and doing keynote speeches and MC and conveying all my experience, making it funny as I can, because that's what we need. I believe solely in the darkest moments you need funny. In any moment you need funny. If you want a message, no matter how harsh or how confronting, if it doesn't come with some humanity, some pathos, some humour, then it doesn't stay with the person. So totally doing that, but I don't want to be that robot on stage, saying joke, goes great, gets laugh.

Feels great, but then it's worn off when you get off stage.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (43:49)

For sure. You mentioned keynote speaking, is that something you're doing as well?

Dane Hiser (43:54)

Yeah, so that's the whole kind of reason I, like, reaching out to different people for different conversations, is to forge a path in that. You know, 'cause obviously I've got part, you know, background in mental health, I've got background in fundraising, background different areas of my life, a whole eclectic background. So I want to be able to tour the country, slash the world, be an MC, but then have in my back pocket four to five keynote packages, really.

One speaks about mental health. One speaks about fundraising. One speaks about comedy. One about disability, brother with, with a disability. All these different things. Using that experience to, to just talk and share and not be a, not be a Tony Robbins who go, this is how you can be better. I don't know how to be better. I don't know how to be well. I don't know, I know what I'm doing's kind of working for me, and I'll just want to chat and share about it. But surely not a do-as-I-do type thing, because yeah.

That wouldn't work well for people.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (44:46)

Absolutely. I believe Australia needs more speakers, more people who want to keynote, simply to share, and you're, a spot on. There are more ways people can learn than by having the solutions. We don't all need to be Tony Robbins, because frankly, I have seen so many lessons anyway in what you have been saying. The lessons are there. We can learn so much from

the, not failures, but we can learn from the hiccups and the hurdles as much as the great big successes.

Dane Hiser (45:21)

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And, and I think that, yeah. I can't, I can't remember what's gonna be sa— that gonna say about that, but yeah, no, I, I think you said, it's very important that we, we learn, yeah, learn from our failures, and that's where you grow. And yeah, like, I, I do think what I've discovered though is, I, to put a b— bookend on the story about the limp and all that too, and the diagnosis. So I went on, I, I took their suggestion, I went off the medication.

My mind fell apart, my body, my life fell apart. It was terrible. There's lots of things, and it affected my job, affected everything in my life. One thing that didn't come back though, quite weirdly, was the depression. Instead, the anxiety heightened to about eleven thousand percent. Because I wasn't just, you know, worried about moving my body or, you know, t— germs. It was COVID, so germs are a big thing, very much worried about all that. But I was, like,

just anxious to, to find, I think, I remember I woke up in the morning after I got Carmen News and started on this path where, right, I've got to fix myself, I've got to fix, help my family, I've got to help my work, I've got to help kids with cancer, because I was working with the kids' cancer charity at the stage, fundraising for them. I've got, I've got to do this, this and this. And I went hell for leather. So my speaking's better, my everything's better. And I was really hyped and anxious, which meant my delivery on comedy was no longer great.

When you have a lisp anyway and you always, you already have something inbuilt that could be a barrier to communicating, you speak a million miles an hour too, and then that can make you, like, not even heard. So not that they don't get the jokes, they don't literally get what you're saying to then get the joke. So I w— I started failing in comedy. And then I started failing at work, because I would miss things, I wouldn't be so hooked in, because I was coming off a medication I'd been on for twenty years. Wow. And I couldn't find a replacement, because it was in the middle of COVID.

And psychologists and psychiatrists were booked up. So I couldn't see a psychiatrist for at least four months. As I was coming off this twenty-year, 20-year drug. When I finally saw someone, he gave me something that was not an antipsychotic and would calm me down. It did, but he said the side effects were drowsiness and brain fog. And they both hit hard. And you can't be brain foggy when you're making six million dollars' worth of income for a charity at the same time.

And that all started, started to fall. And that's when, unfortunately, that all kind of star— started to fall apart. So, but amongst all of that, the leg was perfect. The limp went.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (47:43)

That's, that's amazing that those, maybe it was a side effect. It's great that that was easing up. The anxiety is such a lesson we can all learn from, because what I'm saying is that you had to prioritise your self-care, and seeing that you were working with six-million-dollar fundraising, we take for granted that charities, yes, we assume charities don't have much money, but that's,

that's a lot of money, and there's responsibility, that brain fog.

Dane Hiser (48:15)

We're talking about budget, by the way, as in budget income. That's not spent, that's not expenditure, that's, that's income to raise. Yeah. So that doesn't mean we hog the money, and charities often do it from smell of oily rag as much as possible. But was more about, that was the expectation of that team. But the number's not so much the important thing there. It's more the fact that that was a high pressure, and what I was doing myself was, I've got this. The whole thing of, like, you have the facade but you also have the, no, I've done this before, I've got this, I'm fine.

When I wasn't fine. And I should have, at that point, I should have asked for a timeout. I should have said, can I take a sabbatical? Can I take some compassionate leave? Can I do something to do a little reset? Because I'm not right here. But instead I doubled down. I doubled down on the people helping. Helped everyone I could, because I thought, well, that's something gonna make me feel good, because it always made me feel good helping people. And that's when people saw the biggest decline, because they could see I wasn't right.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (49:06)

When you kept showing up more and more, trying to do more and more, when you weren't looking after yourself.

Dane Hiser (49:12)

I, I went to work every single day of that year.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (49:15)

No breaks, no days off.

Dane Hiser (49:17)

No, because, and no sick days, no l— I need to be— Because it was, no, I got this. I got this.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (49:21)

That's ra— that's ra—

Dane Hiser (49:23)

Yeah, so it, so anyway, so went through all that, and then I, and then when I had that, that secondary drug that wasn't as impactful, it wasn't antipsychotic, so it wasn't harsh, but the brain fog, I, I said, I can't do this. So I went off that drug. And the good news is, I've been off all anxiety meds and any mental health meds for almost four years now. Because—

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (49:45)

Amazing.

Dane Hiser (49:46)

—I've, because I've

move to Newtown, move to wellness, and I do massages and treatments and crystals and all these things, all part of my life. I just, there was this diffuser I was setting up earlier. Like, all this stuff, like, this is a part of my life now, is I will not go back, at least for mental issues, cannot go back to medication. Not after it's done. Not after what it's done. It's kind of thing, if I, if I was a 60 Minutes journalist, I'd be looking, okay, let's look at twenty years of medication with no check-in. What's happening with that?

But that's not, I don't want to do that. It's more that I don't want to go back there. And you know what I found? Is you found, you find other ways within your life and within what you love to actually be mindful and do all the things that they teach you in meditation. Stillness is a thing I can't still manage, because I still am quite twitchy, one, those compulsions are still there. But to be able to connect with people and lock in, that's the ultimate form of mind, mindfulness. Like,

being on stage, whether it be comedy, whether it be drama, whether it be a keynote speech, whether it be this, I'm not worried about anything in my body right now. I'm only worried about you and how you are engaged in reacting. I'm only worried about the audience and how they engage and react. So the whole idea of mindfulness of, you know, you eat mindfully, you hold something mindfully, you feel what it is. It's, my only job in that room is to pay attention to the audience.

Yeah, get the laughs on and get the applause, which is handy in comedy, but then also just have them hooked in, also have them engaged. And that's, that's just, that's the way I try to settle myself.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (51:17)

That's amazing. The lesson from all of this, whether it's diving in with an opportunity or overcoming anxiety, is to get out of our heads and be real.

Dane Hiser (51:26)

Yeah. And that connection thing you were talking about too. Like, that's the other thing I've learned as well, is that re— reaching out and going in communities where people are and doing meditation, doing retreats, doing all these things you normally wouldn't do. Wellness isn't just about leaving medication behind. Wellness is about getting out of your apartment or your bedroom, which you've been lying for days, depressed and angry and anxious about the world. Medication, what that does is, that gives you something to,

like I say, keep it at bay, keep it settled, but it's something you take internally, it's something you take at home. You get up in the morning, you pop a tablet, and you might stay home for the whole day or go to work or whatever. But if you have to go out of your place and you have to go in a group, you have to rock into a local crystal shop in Newtown or whatever it might be, you're going out there amongst people. So wellness promotes engagement. Whereas medicine promotes dealing with it the quick and easy way while you're at home starting up TV.

'Cause all you need to do it with a, a tablet is take the tablet. But if you're going beyond the tablet, you need to go outside and find that replacement of the tablet, which might be the meditation, the crystals, or just the conversation.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (52:32)

Whatever you're into, there are so many spiritual practices, whatever works for us. Look, thank you so much for sharing your journey, your lessons, and what we can learn. I appreciate it so much.

Dane Hiser (52:46)

Thank you, Melanie. It's been really good.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (52:48)

Awesome.

Funny one there.