(Arriving Soon) Podcast Episode 109: Sexologist Saskia Kalwinek on Relationships, the Self, and Spiritual Practices

Transcript: S7 Ep 109, Saskia Kalwinek

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (00:00)

We have on the podcast Saskia, and you are very spiritual, but you are also a therapist. How do you explain to everybody what exactly

you do?

Saskia Kalwinek (00:09)

I'm a sexologist, in one word. Sexual therapy has been there for quite a while now. I use multitude of other modalities, such as inner child work, working with somatics in the body, teaching meditation, mindfulness, yoga, breathwork. So, really learning how to be holistic about your health, about your mental health

and your spiritual health too. So I started doing Reiki and past life regression hypnosis with people to address other, are underlying causes, not only the immediate things that we face in this lifetime, but look at the energetic system of, of people, and I'm trying to combine that, and quite often people come for a multitude of reasons, sometimes sexual, sometimes only spiritual, or both.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (00:59)

Right, right. The, the sexology, let's explain, that's psychology focus. Is that right?

Saskia Kalwinek (01:10)

Yeah, so I've begun with psychology bachelor's and then followed into a master's in sexual therapy. It, it would basically be like a psychological consultation, but looking at your sexual health. If someone has sexual dysfunctions, problems in relationships, libido issues, anything related to relationships and sexuality, that would be up my alley. And I've done multitude of other courses on communication, specifically couples therapy.

Quite often therapists will go into couples therapy as they would into individual things. But honestly, it's very, very different. It's much more c— challenging, as I've been finding out for those years that I've been doing

it.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (01:52)

Why is it more challenging?

Saskia Kalwinek (01:54)

You have two people in the room. So you have two very different perspectives. And they not always are agreeing. In fact, majority of the time they would not be agreeing. So you would need to create space where everyone's say has a space, rather than we talk over each other or use these dysfunctional things. So I'm teaching how to do that, and I'm pointing out what they are doing specifically. I'm getting them to agree on that and agree on how we're gonna proceed as well.

And quite often it is a bit like dealing with kids, because when we are stressed, we just behave in very different way. So I would need to bring them back with breathing, meditation, and just acknowledging what went wrong and what are they doing to contribute to the current situation in the

room.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (02:42)

Is that extra challenging because we often don't want to admit our flaws?

Saskia Kalwinek (02:47)

Definitely. Usually people don't wanna see, they don't wanna know, and they just wanna blame the other person. I even sometimes get blamed, that it's, it's me or whatever else. Yeah. People do that because they just don't want you to say these things to them. It's not very common, but I had a few situations when it did happen.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (03:07)

That's rough. What sorts of issues are people facing these days more in relationships?

Saskia Kalwinek (03:13)

I think specifically for me, that would be, really, libido problems. And definitely communication around it, communication around sexuality. People don't like to talk about it, and quite often I hear that it should be done and not talked about, which I don't believe is true. I think we should be talking about it more and then really go slow, rather than just jumping into things and then being surprised that something is just not working out

for us.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (03:39)

Interesting. People don't want to talk about it. Are they reluctant with, are they reluctant to talk about other aspects of their relationships, or is the libido the big topic at the moment?

Saskia Kalwinek (03:52)

I think in general people have issues with talking about emotional things. So definitely other areas of relationships, they can be challenging for them to bring up, such as just feelings, not necessarily the content of what's been happening, but how are they feeling? This is probably the most difficult thing for them. Also, sexual things, any, even the content of the sexual relations that they are having, they would mention that this is a bit, you know, difficult for me to talk about.

This in particular, even if you remove the emotions a little bit from it and you just talk about the deed itself, that's already emotionally provoking for people. Just because it's such a delicate thing and you don't normally talk to people about it.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (04:36)

Absolutely, we don't. What did you normally find is the reason why people are struggling with their libido, or another way to put it? How else can we word this? People, is it often a mismatch, where one person wants it more and someone else wants it less?

Saskia Kalwinek (04:56)

Yeah. Yeah, definitely that's the biggest problem that I see in couples for sexual therapy. Where usually women, majority of the time that would be a female rather than a man in a, in the couple. But depends. It's, it might happen that sometimes a man would have a lower libido as well. And I like to not stigmatise it as the lower libido person has a problem. I believe it's a holistic problem for a couple.

And very often the other person with the higher libido also needs to do some work. And quite often with the higher libido, there's other problems connected to it, such as porn use or looking outside of the relationship. So that's pretty common, that one person would just be not interested at all and the other one will be looking for other stimuli because they're not really having any satisfaction in the relationship, which I don't believe is an excuse for sexual behaviours like that without,

you know, communication with your partner.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (05:55)

Looking outside of the relationship, are we talking about affairs or cheating?

Saskia Kalwinek (06:01)

Yeah, sometimes I would have some couples that would face problems such as cheating, affairs, but also just opening up a relationship. They want to become poly and explore other things. So I help with that too.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (06:16)

How does that end up going?

Saskia Kalwinek (06:17)

Depends on the couple. I think when both people have already been exploring polyamory in the past and they know how to do it, they know their boundaries and they know how to communicate, that can work. But quite often I encounter couples that have only been monogamous and now they are thinking about opening up because the relationship is in a bad condition. And that usually doesn't end up very good.

They might learn some things about themselves along the way, which can be interesting, but it, it, it can be problematic.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (06:50)

What are they expecting? Are they expecting it to fix something?

Saskia Kalwinek (06:55)

Yeah, yeah, that it's, it's gonna be all better when that one person will get their fill of attention, sexual things that they wanna do. But it usually doesn't end up like that, and there's a lot of jealousy connected to it. In general, in poly community there is a lot of jealousy, and people don't talk about it, and they think that there's not none of this, these people are not jealous. There's plenty of that. And there's just ways that you can mitigate it in.

And I think that's the biggest work. How do you find balance between different partners then?

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (07:28)

I see, I see. For those who are pursuing the traditional route, not fully traditional, but those who are considering commitment or going from those early stages to then maybe looking at moving in together or getting married, anything like that, do you see any issues or hurdles in those spaces?

Saskia Kalwinek (07:53)

Yeah, definitely. A lot of couples tend to come in after they've already moved in and they find it very problematic. So they, they would be, this is amazing, and let's, let's move in together. And then you're finding out that when you're close to your partner in that way, there is plenty of different issues that you need to face together that you maybe didn't want to look at beforehand, when it was so nice because you saw each other maybe three times a week.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (08:20)

It's completely different seeing someone occasionally or in that setting. And also, before you move in, you're not dealing with the everyday practicalities of, are you going to have dinner every night together, or are you going to be out all the time? There are all those little details. Is that the sort of thing that people struggle with, or does the whole intimate relationship change?

Saskia Kalwinek (08:46)

It can change, definitely, that they might have less sex, and that's why they come in. Because they might have had much more before they moved in, and now it dropped off. They don't know why. But I think it's really the proximity as well, because we can sometimes get overwhelmed with how many things we need to work on. And our partners are our biggest mirrors for these issues. So they hold it up to our face, and then, you know, if, if you're not gonna do that.

Then it's, it's gonna be in your face.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (09:16)

I'm so glad we're talking about all of this, because whatever sort of relationship anybody wants, this must come up in some form for almost all of us.

Saskia Kalwinek (09:25)

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. A mirror can be anyone. It doesn't have to be a romantic partner. It can be your friend. Parents are big mirrors as well, to show us what we're—

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (09:36)

Anyone can—

Saskia Kalwinek (09:37)

—doing.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (09:38)

I apologise, anyone can be a mirror.

Saskia Kalwinek (09:41)

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Like, when we encounter someone and they have, for example, different traits that we want to have that we not yet developed, then we might get jealous, we might get awkward around them, because we are like, wow, this person already is so articulate, or they have the job that I want, and then we start to doubt ourselves and our insecurities are coming forward, but I think that's a good thing as well, because then we can address them rather than just be unaware of them.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (10:08)

Do we sometimes also wish, do we feel a pressure? Do you see people feeling the pressure to become some of the things that someone else is living in their lives?

Saskia Kalwinek (10:22)

Yeah, a hundred percent. I think it provokes so much. And we usually, I think, would encounter people that would provoke these certain things for us because we're, we're supposed to work on them. We're supposed to be better and gain our highest potential, and it just hurts us that we might be stuck. We're not getting there right now, or we, we don't want to go as far.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (10:46)

We don't want to. Are we sometimes reluctant—

Saskia Kalwinek (10:48)

Yeah.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (10:50)

—to progress?

Saskia Kalwinek (10:51)

Yeah, a hundred percent. People are very often are reluctant to progress with things because progress hurts. You would need to go through feelings. You would need to go through your insecurities. If you want that company, you know how much work it takes. It takes you to, you know, put yourself out there and to post on social media, to show your face, and that can be unnerving too. All of these feelings would need to come forward in order for you to grow. And a lot of people just

don't want to do that, it's too much for them.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (11:22)

Is that sort of feeling, the feeling of putting yourself out there, maybe others, like feeling a fear of failure or any of this, does that come through when people are considering taking the leap in new relationships or new stages in any sorts of relationships?

Saskia Kalwinek (11:41)

Yeah, a hundred percent. When you meet a new person it's, it's a massive chunk of work. So quite often we would have this honeymoon period in a relationship, but if two people are quite self-aware, that can be a big blow-up very soon after, because you just see so much in that other person, and either you wanna grow and you wanna change and you, you take on all of this and start the progress, or you just escape.

So I think that's why dating now, it's so funny. That, you know, some people really want to commit. I find especially women sometimes, that they want to commit at relationships and, and men would just kind of run away. I have quite a bit of female clients that would come f— just for the dating advice, and I think those are one of the most common stories, that one wants to, one doesn't want to, and it's this constant chase.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (12:34)

Chase, the running away. I'm very interested in that. I'm wondering, I'm wondering what's normally underneath, because you said that people can be very reflective or looking within. So is it sometimes not that someone is being thoughtless and careless? Is it sometimes that there's so much mirror that it becomes overwhelming, and someone gets away from that much reflection?

Saskia Kalwinek (13:01)

Yeah, a hundred percent. I, I wrote a book about it. How to get over a breakup, Break Up Ascension, how to progress after instead of being stuck. That, yeah, sometimes it is so overwhelming that s— some relationships are just supposed to start so that we can grow, but not necessarily with them, but outside of them. They're for us rather than, you'll be a wonderful couple together. And yes, for the person that don't wanna grow, the, the escaper,

then yeah, they, they would be overwhelmed with all the things. Big love brings big connection but also big problems. Because you would need to face all of this to experience more love. Our bodies are only able to have enough love that we already had in our lives, that parents presented. And then we would need to develop capacity later on in life if we want a better relationship than your parents have had.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (14:00)

Is it the capacity of learning how?

Saskia Kalwinek (14:04)

Yeah. Yeah, basically how to love, but that starts with loving yourself. If you don't know how to love yourself, you will not be able to love another person at a higher level. You might have some love, surely, if you had a, you know, good childhood and some good patterns, but without growth, it's, it's not possible for you to have a better relationship than your parents did.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (14:28)

How should we love ourselves?

Saskia Kalwinek (14:30)

Constant practice. I believe that the biggest one is just feeling your own feelings. Of course you can tell yourself, I love myself, you can do affirmations, you can do journaling, all of these practices. But if you're doing them and not really feeling what you're supposed to feel, you're not acknowledging who you are and who you want to become, then nothing is really gonna change. You are just simply talking to yourself into a mirror and saying lies that your brain perceives as lies, right? That

you do, you love yourself, but in here, on earth, it's kind of like, do you? Do you really? You did this and you did that. So we always have some sort of a, a background voice telling you that it's not right. This is not the right information, just because maybe parents didn't tell you that they loved you. And now you have an idea of that, then I'm not lovable.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (15:19)

Okay, does the brain know when we're just telling ourselves things without matching it with the reality?

Saskia Kalwinek (15:28)

Yeah, yeah, a hundred percent. There's been a lot of studies on the affirmations, that we need affirmations that we are believing. Not necessarily that full on you believe and you're, you know, definitely out there screaming it out to everyone, but you need something that you're able to get behind. That it's like, okay, that, that's possible. At least this type of affirmations.

So if your, your self-esteem is not very good and you already want to tell yourself, I love myself, your brain might be like, this is a lie, you lie to yourself right now. But if you start with, like, I like myself, that can be different. Okay, I like this, I like that about myself, so you can go small instead of going all the way.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (16:14)

So sometimes we can really be kidding ourselves.

Saskia Kalwinek (16:17)

Yeah, yeah, definitely.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (16:19)

Okay, so considering this as branching into general personal development, really, of how to improve, I'm keen to look at how we can do this better. Because the affirmations are done out there in, for those who believe in it, for pretty much anything. People have an affirmation for everything. But

there's also a lot of talk about things like manifesting, especially in the spiritual space. For those who have other spiritual beliefs, maybe a bit religious or otherwise, there's the pray for it, manifest, belief, whatever it might be, whatever your flavour is. But then we clearly need to match this with actions. How can we show the listener and explain to the listener that we need to

align our reality with our words, but how would that look? Is it about habits? Is it about one big change? What normally works for people?

Saskia Kalwinek (17:23)

It's a multitude of things. One part is definitely releasing your emotions, allowing yourself to cry, express, to feel angry, to feel whatever you need to feel. I think that's the beginning of your journey, when you are really being okay with being emotional and authentic, because authenticity is the highest vibration, if you want to call it like that, highest vibrational emotion.

I call them on different vibrational levels because, for example, fear is quite low. So you know how we feel fear or sadness, we feel heavy, isn't it? So that's why I say it's like, it's a lower vibration, it's a heavy, heavy thing. It's a burden. But then authenticity vibrates really high, that we feel really good when we can be just ourselves. We don't have to pretend.

We are being accepted for everything that we are, and it just feels nice and light. So all of these light emotions would be very helpful too, to be able to explore them a bit. And that will come with, the more you release of the heavy ones, the more lighter ones are gonna appear for you. So it's not really about just being positive about everything and pretending that you're not sad or pretending that you're not upset.

So that's part one, but part two is that when you have released already all of this from your system and you're being authentic, who are you becoming? What are you embodying? So you would need to change your habits. What if, let's say, okay, you start to release, but then you're promoting the same relational patterns? What if you're still keeping people in your life that are just not serving you, they bad for you, they mean to you? You're not gonna manifest anything. You might only manifest more of what you already have.

You would need to cut out all of these things from your life and see how your world can change. That doesn't mean that you need to be perfect at everything. Perfection doesn't really exist. We are perfect in all different kinds of ways. And you would need to become a bit more perfect for your specific situation. Maybe for you a particular diet just doesn't work. Maybe you need to exercise a little bit less than other people because you need more rest, such as females need more rest than men.

We need to remember that, that we are all built differently, and that's okay. So then when you align all of that, you, your behaviours, your actions, and you're being in a healthy way emotional, then you can start manifesting through positivity, but, like, a true positivity, because you're very happy with your life, you're grateful for your life, and then you can imagine what the life could be like later on. What do you want for yourself? What is your true potential?

And then it starts to, you can start feeling it in your body. I think that's the biggest thing. When you start to feel things in your body, that they are just true and right for you. Feeling your future partner. Who are they? Not necessarily exactly who this person is, but how kind they are, how nice it feels when they are around. So it's more of a feeling of wholeness in your body that

starts to approach you, and then it just materialises, you meet that person, because you already know how they feel. And that's the same with a job or an apartment or whatever else you're manifesting. I would just focus on, what does that feel like when you already have it, when you already have a nice place? It feels nice, safe, cosy. So just promote that feeling. I'm not a very big person on, like, visualisation, because that's, I think that's a little bit passive. It's, it's just an image that you're giving to yourself.

I think much bigger story is when your body can recognise it. And then sometimes I would get a vision of that for myself, not even trying to get a vision of it.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (21:12)

Is this partly because when we feel the feeling, when we feel the feeling, we then conduct ourselves differently in the world?

Saskia Kalwinek (21:22)

Yeah, a hundred percent, you become a very different person to what you were. And that's why you can obtain these things now, because you're different. You're the person that already has them. Maybe you hold yourself with confidence, yet, that you didn't have before, and now all of these things that come to confident people are gonna come to you as well.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (21:40)

Absolutely. We have to, it sounds like we have to embody the person that we want to become before we perhaps are in the role or the identity. Is it, is it sort of like embodying the identity that we want to become?

Saskia Kalwinek (21:59)

Yeah, yeah, a hundred percent. I think people quite often do just confuse this word. What does it even mean, to embody things? It is combination of those things, to be able to look into your body, feel things the way you need to feel them. So this combination of true and raw authenticity, and then knowing where do you need to go, what is healthy for you, what do you need to do, and not

kind of prolonging all of this process and procrastinating perhaps, that I, I know you should go to the gym, but you're not going, for instance.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (22:32)

Do the things. And absolutely, we need more—

Saskia Kalwinek (22:34)

Yes, it's—

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (22:35)

—exercise. You did, however, mention before that some, that women need more rest. And—

Saskia Kalwinek (22:42)

Are you?

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (22:42)

—that feels so similar to how another guest talked about having for a while exercised more to please other people or to impress everybody else. So we also know that women, especially

in the perimenopause stage and beyond, need to focus on their strength instead of just becoming a skinny skeleton. Are you seeing, especially in the therapy space, are you seeing women becoming burned out in any—

Saskia Kalwinek (23:12)

Yeah, yeah, a lot of the time. I think this people pleasing is really big around women, that is this, I, I just wanna be better, I wanna be a better mom, I wanna be a better partner, better this, better that. And in men sometimes is, is the opposite, right? That, what do I want to do for myself? And I think both categories, both men and women, can learn from each other, that we need the component of,

how am I gonna look after myself? But also, how do people see me? How can I be better for the environment that I am in? And how to be better for my own body rather than for everyone else and what everyone else is thinking about me.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (23:56)

The environment, adapting—

Saskia Kalwinek (23:58)

Yeah.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (23:59)

—for the environment that we're in, what does that involve?

Saskia Kalwinek (24:02)

I think just being mindful of other people and how are they feeling, the more you are mindful about, the more you are mindful about how are you feeling, the more you will be able to recognise that in others as well. That the more you feel your own feelings, how maybe uncomfortable you are in situations, how difficult it can be to speak to someone that maybe you find intimidating.

Then you can see that in others too, that maybe this person needs a little bit of help. Maybe I can introduce them to someone else or bring them into the conversation, or here is how I could be potentially nice to this person, but not for any outcome, but just because it's nice to be nice, just for the sake of being kind,

rather than anything else, to, like, gain something. That's when you get the reciprocity from people. That's when you get everything back, when you're actually not expecting anything and you're just doing things for the sake of doing them. I think that's a really nice practice. And usually women do that, that they would be thinking, like, how can I make them happy? How can I do this? How can I do that? But that also sometimes comes from these insecurities. That if I don't do this, then they will think about me bad things.

For example, instead of say, this is nice to be kind. I'm gonna do this nice thing, and that will feel nice for, will feel nice for me too. Mm.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (25:22)

I often

wonder if being nice for the sake of being nice is becoming too countercultural, and we need to shift our culture to look beyond the individual self. Do you think so?

Saskia Kalwinek (25:35)

A hundred percent. I don't think of it as we just need to think about ourselves and that's where self-esteem comes from. It's a big relationality component inside of it, but we need to start with the ourselves, not only with other people, because if you put everything onto the relationship, then your relationship becomes your battery. And that, that's okay in a sense that it's a, like, a spare battery if, if you run out of, like, your own.

Then they can help you if they are available, but you need your own battery as well. So you start with your own battery. How do you care for yourself? Just like when we're growing up, like, all the attention is on us, isn't it? So you would need to first become that baby and be like, okay, how do I care for myself? How can I nourish myself? And then you learn all of these nourishing practices and things that you can do, and then you can transfer it onto other people, and that becomes this nice and symbiotic relationship,

rather than you thinking that a relationship is the best thing that ever happened to you and without it you'll be nothing. That's a very big misconception in society right now, that you need a partner to be happy, or why don't you have a partner already? And we hear all of these messages, and we are learning how to search for a relationship from a perspective of lack. I don't have it, I need to have it.

Rather than, it's just nice to have it if I do have it, and if I don't have it, that's okay.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (27:03)

Being your own battery is an amazing way to put it. I look forward to getting that into the reels and so on. For those who are thinking about or are considering a relationship, but they want to keep their freedom, their sense of self, how do people find that balance?

Saskia Kalwinek (27:22)

Their, their own sense of self. I, I think just going back to this emotionality, I think that's the very first step. I was always wondering about, what, what is really this self-development? I was already studying and doing all of these things. And it still didn't really come together for me, even as a therapist, of what is it really to, like, self-develop? You know, like, yes, become better, but why? How do we even do that? How would I put it in one sentence?

And I would just say right now, in one sentence, that it is just feeling your feelings. Sometimes it means to sit in the corner and crying and screaming and whatever else you need to do, rather than, you know, pretending that you're breathing and you're calming down. Meditation can also be a drug, exercise can be a drug, everything can be a drug, but what is not is the emotional processing. When you relax your body enough that you're able to

feel the sadness, feel the upsetness, and understand where it's coming from.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (28:21)

Meditation can be, what, addictive?

Saskia Kalwinek (28:25)

Hundred percent. It feels really, really good when you develop a practice. We, we've already talked about how I've done my, like, eight hours meditations, and eventually I, I couldn't wait to go back home and just to meditate again. And it does crash down, because it, it, it is a drug, because the DMTs in your body are coming up, and in that—

Sorry.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (28:49)

The DMTs.

Saskia Kalwinek (28:51)

Yeah. So you know the, the drug, the DMT. Can't remember the, the full name for it, but it's a psychedelic drug. So it's, it's kind of like mushrooms or acid, is, it's just stronger. So usually when people take it in, like, vaping or whatever else, you get a pretty funny trip, some colours maybe, and just a woo of things that are happening

for you, and you might say, people say that they get higher consciousness, they, they have all of these downloads and connecting with the universe, you might say. And when you meditate, it, it's a very similar feeling. So you open up the pathways in your brain permanently, rather than the drug wears off and then we end the trip. Right? When you meditate, it's, is much bigger than this, even though sometimes even with drugs, people can go very, very far.

And the pathways might still be open. I had some, some cases where people after these drugs, they still had some effects after. But I think people need to be very much willing and ready for them to open up. Whereas with meditation, you can kind of force it open. You can really go deep down.

And then if you're not willing to process everything that comes up, and a lot can come up, such as traumas, emotions, feelings, sensations in the body, then yeah, then you might end up in a psychosis episode or, or depressive episode.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (30:21)

That's big. And I've heard various perspectives from yoga teachers who will have a meditation element within what they do, or they are doing something that's a different mindfulness practice, but they see similar issues, where people are finally stopping, they're doing some sort of practice, and then all the issues are coming up. For those who are looking to explore any sort of mindfulness.

And keep in mind, we're not saying anyone has to have a particular belief, anything like that, but whether someone is following a meditation app or going to a class, whatever it is, how can we, how can we arm or protect ourselves or prepare to do that responsibly?

Saskia Kalwinek (31:09)

I don't think you can, honestly. Like, obviously we, we need to be mindful about the amount, and we shouldn't go crazy in anything. Too much of anything can be bad for you. Just this idea could be enough, but to be honest, you never know what's gonna happen, because we don't really know the, the plan. We, we don't know the fate. Where is it gonna take us? I had no idea, like, where I'm gonna go when I started

to meditate excessively. So you, you can never fully prepare for what is about to come, but I think what you can do is to get more comfortable with yourself, be okay with things coming up and not to think of them as something bad. I think that would be the best thing that you can do, to not to overanalyse this.

When I first had, like, my anxiety coming up, I just didn't know what to do with it. I didn't want it and I pushed it away. So then it accumulated and gave me depression. So I think, like, what anxiety is, it eventually might accumulate, give you depression. So these two are quite, and, inseparable quite often in people. And then it can go farther into psychosis, other things. And I've experienced all of them, and I came out, like, out of all of them as well.

So it just took me a certain amount of being okay with not being okay. That it's, it's all right if you're suffering, it's all right if you're in pain, whatever is right now is supposed to be like this right now. And not to demonise this process. I used to demonise this process. And even though I was learning from the best scholars and reading all of these articles about anxiety, depression, and whatever else, nothing really prepared me fully for,

for what I've had. It, it was just me getting comfortable with it and sitting with it, resting and being all right with this meditation rather than anything else.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (33:05)

It seems like spiritual practices can be another form of looking externally. And of course we need to connect with that divine presence that's all around us, but the practices, the clinging onto specific locations, specific leaders, or whatever it might be, along with clinging onto relationships, do you see that people are

looking outwards to, to maybe even escape their feelings or to fix, instead of looking at the thing behind all of these practices? The, the sustainable, original, divine and self. Do you think that's what's going on?

Saskia Kalwinek (33:56)

All the time. Everyone has an escape.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (33:59)

Everyone has an escape. That's, that's true.

Saskia Kalwinek (34:01)

Everyone, yeah, even

if, even if people are healthy people, and even if their only escape is, is the gym or meditation and whatever, that can still be an escape. I, I've done that, and I thought it's, it's not an escape. But eventually you can, I used to work out, like, six, seven days a week, and I thought, like, yeah, I'm just healthy, you know, it makes me feel good in my head. It did, but I relied on it so heavily that if I didn't exercise then I just felt horrible, you know. And

then when I finally started to balance it out a little bit, it doesn't really affect me as much if I need to rest a bit more or if I'm going away and I can't really exercise as, as much.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (34:40)

Were you feeling the withdrawal or the FOMO, so to speak, when you had the gaps from, away from the gym?

Saskia Kalwinek (34:48)

Yeah. Yeah. Hundred percent. I still do sometimes, a little bit, but it's definitely less than it's what it was.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (34:56)

You also mentioned that too much of anything can be an issue. I want to flick back to relationships. Do people need to aim for, I was going to say balance. I think the word balance has been controversial these days, with women talking about work-life balance and so on. But do you see that people need to be careful about any sort of excess in their relationships? Perhaps being suddenly, being around each other all the time.

We talked about moving in, but there'd be other forms as well, just wanting to hang out all the time when previously they had perhaps a routine with gym, yoga or social group, whatever it might be. Do we—

Saskia Kalwinek (35:37)

Mm.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (35:37)

—need to, do we need to be careful with that, or even excess with sexual habits or anything?

Saskia Kalwinek (35:43)

Yeah, hundred percent. A person can absolutely become a drug for us, and, and a very potent one as well. A connection can be super strong, right? But if you're not really doing the work and only hanging out because it just feels good and you're filling in each other's gaps and you're not really becoming whole for yourself, then it's just like any other drug. Absolutely. That's why after breakups we have such a massive withdrawal.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (36:12)

What goes on for the brain in the withdrawal?

Saskia Kalwinek (36:16)

They, I think there was some studies on, on breakups as well, and it's, it's very much like drugs, like with withdrawal after drugs, it can produce a lot of pain. That the brain is just bombarded with, obviously, excessive thoughts, just very, very distorted. It, it is a kind of a mental illness when we, when we break up, because it's a big source of our self-regulation.

You co-regulate, not even knowing that you're co-regulating with someone else, and then when you remove the energy of the other person, your body just starts to shake, because it understood so much about itself. But then this person that made it okay is no longer there, and you need to develop all of these different things that this person was teaching you. Hmm.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (37:05)

Fascinating. It's the teaching. I expected the co-regulating part, but it sounds like there is a perspective that we get from another person as well.

Saskia Kalwinek (37:16)

100%. If, let's say, your partner was really good at self-regulating and, I don't know, going to the gym regularly, they've done meditation regularly, and maybe you were better at something else, maybe you were doing more of the business stuff, more of the self-development in other ways, you would need to look into maybe doing more of the gym, more of the health things for yourself, because that's what they were teaching you, and vice versa. If you're not gonna look in there, it will always

be around you. They're like, I should be doing this, I should be doing this.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (37:50)

It'll be around you.

Saskia Kalwinek (37:51)

Yeah, like, just in the air, right? Like, just this thought of, I'm not doing this, this is what I'm supposed to do, and then we just either ignore it or we get into it and we get all the lessons and we become a bit more like them, but in a good sense.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (38:04)

We fill the gap and try to fill it.

Saskia Kalwinek (38:07)

Sometimes yes. Depends how you wanna go about your breakup. Definitely people tend to jump into a next relationship straight after, just to not to feel the pain. But if you wanna go about it the right way, then you're just finding things that are healthy for you to do, and then your body can finally become a bit more balanced using the knowledge that they have provided to you.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (38:29)

I want to allow time and space for any lessons, because you cover so many specialties between therapy and spirituality. Which other lessons from your books, your programs? Which other lessons do people need to learn?

Saskia Kalwinek (38:48)

Anything in specific?

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (38:49)

About anything.

Saskia Kalwinek (38:50)

I think communication, how to say certain things without upsetting yourself or another person, that would be really good to learn.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (39:00)

I need that. Let's go there.

Saskia Kalwinek (39:03)

A boundary creation, that, that is also really important. And it's a part of communication as well. How do you create a world around you, rather than just allow people to just create it for you? I think that's really good. And it's not very often what people think it is, because people think, like, good boundaries, that means everyone likes me.

Or I have just a nice life with people, you know, but it, it really doesn't mean that. It actually means a lot of loneliness that you need to go through, because a lot of people are just not meant for you. Majority of people that you meet, they will not become your best friends, your family. And you will need to learn how to put them in according, like, to put them into boxes accordingly.

And it might sound a bit, like, calculated and cold, but it's not. It's just for safety reasons. I believe that, I like, I like to think of it as, I love everyone the same on, like, a soul level, that everyone is a beautiful soul, but they might not be necessarily a very nice human being. And you don't want that human being with you.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (40:08)

Is it because people have different goals that don't serve your purpose, and it's not necessarily a selfish purpose, but perhaps people are only interested in themselves and not supporting others? Is it that personalities clash, or is it something else as well?

Saskia Kalwinek (40:28)

These things are possible, that maybe your personalities, that just don't match, maybe you have very different missions in life, maybe they are just toxic.

All of these things can lead to us not being in relationships anymore, not having these friends anymore. And in fact, the more you start to heal, the more of this paradigm start, starts to come into your life, to have new friendships, people coming in and out very quickly, because it's just karma going through. You're not supposed to actually be with them. It's just the karma that was supposed to go on and end.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (41:02)

The toxic—

Saskia Kalwinek (41:02)

Yeah.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (41:03)

—element, it's a word that gets used in all sorts of ways. How do you identify if something feels toxic? What does that actually involve or look like?

Saskia Kalwinek (41:15)

Just rude behaviours, for example, sometimes get, they can be very subtle. They can be very small behaviours. But the more you heal and the more you are not as toxic, the more you can just see. It doesn't really take that much to then recognise a person when you have already addressed your things and you're not being,

say, the, the victim in certain situations, right? That you're not positioning yourself there anymore, if you were that. Or if maybe you were the, the abuser, you've done something and, but you have addressed it. And now it's really easy for you to be like, yeah, I've, I've done it, I can see it. Or that was done to me and I got over it, and then I can see it. So the more you can heal whatever parts are holding you stuck with this person, this abuser, then it just becomes very clear.

Even if the behaviour is very tiny, it, it can become quite visible to you.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (42:13)

Do you see people sometimes seeming unaware of their habits or behaviours that don't sit right with people? Or they really think they're doing the right thing and they can't see their own blind spots?

Saskia Kalwinek (42:26)

Yeah, a hundred percent. So much. Not so much in the sessions, like, they are quite receptive to what I say, because they obviously come for a session. So they like, okay, you know, I keep that in mind. They might not do anything about it, that's true too, but they will be quite receptive to my feedback. But in my, say, personal life, there w— there would be a lot where, where people wanted to tell me, like, how to do things or

what, what are they thinking and feeling was the main thing. Actually, just recently I had a very heated conversation like that, with, like, very subtle words, that I was like, this, it doesn't seem right, you know, for, for you to say this to me, say, as a colleague. And that was a very big cue to, like, okay, I should probably not speak to this person anymore if I don't have to. Hmm.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (43:18)

I see, I see. When you say it in a colleague, that's difficult, because, well, the best you can do is not talk to them, but sometimes you can't avoid that. Although we're going into a whole extra topic of work, we can glance at that for a moment. How,

how can people address that, if in any dynamic you, if someone feels like they need to deal with someone and it's hard to fully avoid them, even if it's in small doses, small amounts of interaction, what can they do to ease the discomfort or reduce the issues with a person who's a bit too tricky or colourful?

Saskia Kalwinek (44:05)

Mm. As little as possible. Give as little as possible. A very, like, one-word answers are also okay sometimes. You, you don't have to write them a whole letter. You can just say, okay, good, yes, no, goodbye. Be civil, be, be nice enough, but you don't have to go above and beyond. You don't have to ha— ask about their day, you don't have to inquire about anything at all. You can just keep it very, very simple.

And as for the discomfort, like, learn how to be with it. Learn how to go through discomfort. Make it a part of your day. Life is discomfort. There's a lot of things that will be uncomfortable. And the more you're trying to escape it, the more it's, it's won— it wants to find you. And these people as well will want to find you. So the more you're not okay with being uncomfortable,

the more uncomfortable situations are, you're gonna encounter, so that you can learn.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (45:06)

Is this because if it wasn't one uncomfortable situation it would be another one, because life is not comfy?

Saskia Kalwinek (45:13)

Yeah, a hundred percent.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (45:15)

In our last few minutes, what are three practical habits anyone can develop to get back on track, with perhaps one for relationships with anybody, one for reconnecting with the self, and one for anything else?

Saskia Kalwinek (45:34)

Okay, so let's start with relationships. Like, a one practical habit, yeah, that they can do.

In relationships, anything in particular, like, partner relationships or colleagues, partners, yeah?

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (45:47)

Let's go with partners, because that's your specialty.

Saskia Kalwinek (45:51)

Okay, if you have a partner, make sure that you, you talk weekly, like, at least one and a half hours per, per week, that you sit down together and you have a serious chat, that, that you discuss your feelings,

you share things together, whatever it may mean, that you just meet and, and have that time together. You make it important to be scheduled, rather than, when we talk, then we talk, type of a thing.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (46:18)

To make sure it happens.

Saskia Kalwinek (46:20)

To make sure it happens, to make it important.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (46:24)

Absolutely. And the next one, reconnecting with the self, be it nurturing the self, loving the self.

Saskia Kalwinek (46:31)

Mm, sit with yourself. I, I don't think it has to be any, like, fancy meditation technique or anything like that. Whatever it may mean for you, you might do yoga, you might just sit with your coffee or, you know, whatever you do in a day. Sit with yourself and feel your feelings. Feel the, the discomfort that you need to feel. And I think that's the, the greatest form of self-love.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (46:54)

Amazing. Any other final lessons or words for the listener to keep in mind?

Saskia Kalwinek (47:00)

Final lessons. Be courageous about things. Be very bold. I think that's, that's another important one. That the universe likes action and likes bold people. It's, it's, it's not really only about being nice and empathetic, and you need to be a monk to, to get your things right in this lifetime. It is really just about being authentic, and the boldness in which you're taking the action later on.

Mm.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (47:30)

Amazing. Saskia, thank you so much for sharing your knowledge and your tips on the podcast. I appreciate it so much.

Saskia Kalwinek (47:40)

That's all good, it was a pleasure.