Transcript

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (00:02)

Okay, Coach Lee, it is lovely to talk to you. Thank you so much for being on the podcast. How are you doing today?

Coach Lee (00:08)

Thank you for having me.

I am doing good, how about yourself?

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (00:13)

Wonderful, wonderful. I saw that you have worked in a legal career, or you do work in a legal career. What do you do? Tell everybody about yourself.

Coach Lee (00:28)

I as I like to say, criminal defense attorney by day, productivity and accountability coach throughout this month since it's now September. This will be 12 year anniversary of being an attorney. fact, my first job was actually at a law firm. So as you say, I've worked in and still work in the legal field.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (00:46)

Right. You're an attorney now. Okay. How do you fit the time in for these two roles? Do you have a lot of hours working as an attorney and then fit in your other work on the side? You're all about productivity. So how do you do it? That's a place to start. How do you do productivity?

Coach Lee (01:06)

So I'm all work life

balance. Fun fact, I don't bring work home, I don't work weekends. I don't work, I mean, I'm salaried, but I don't do the overtime. So work hours, five o'clock, really like 4.45, I'm packing up to leave work. So eight to 4.45, eight to five is work for me. I don't work weekends, I don't bring work home, I don't work late. Unless like if I'm in trial, so I'm physically in the courtroom, yes. But.

I can literally count on one hand, literally like three fingers, the number of times that I have like brought work home or went into work on my day off. Besides, I can only have like emergency duty. But yeah, I knew going into law that, you know, the stereotypes and I'm a public defender, so government attorney. So, you know, high case loads, long hours. And I'm like, I want to do this work, but I also know that I don't want to work late. I don't want to bring work home. I don't want my identity or to be defined by work.

So I went in kind of with the game plan. I'm like, let me figure out what it is that I need to do. What do I need to do literally to do the job, to understand my role, to create this work-life balance. And then, yeah, so I've kind of stuck to it, even with the various iterations of turnover, people leaving. So having high caseloads temporarily, being promoted, taking on higher cases, things like that. So yeah.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (02:27)

That's amazing. So even when there is extra work, you find that balance.

Coach Lee (02:32)

Yes.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (02:35)

Do you think people can find an actual balance or do you think that our time is leaning towards one thing or another at different moments? How can people attempt something resembling balance? Or is it about finding time for whatever we value?

Coach Lee (02:54)

think is both. I don't define balance as 50-50. Balance to me is wholeness. So when you say about is it about what's important in that season or in that moment, you might have 70 % focus maybe at work or career or just had a baby. You know, in that role and then maybe 20 % or 25 % I guess, let me do correct math here, in another area. But ultimately, that is balance because when you think about a scale, the whole point of it is to keep it to where it's teetering and tottering as opposed to

Like we have this game I call topple, like when you get the scales unbalanced, everything crumbles over. That's not balanced. You can have balance where it might be, as you would say, like out of whack, like one area is higher than the other, but at the end of the day, you're still hanging tight to that and not everything isn't falling off. So I think, yes, balance is possible, but also in understanding and defining balance, you have to understand what is your priority in this season, in this time and in this phase to be able to identify and look at that. ⁓

to kind of define balance.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (03:57)

Knowing our priorities, we need to know something has to be the priority in this moment. So I'm very curious to now explore what exactly do you do with your productivity coaching? What does that involve? What do you do with people?

Coach Lee (04:03)

Exactly.

So for me, it's about a funny story. Talking about time, when people were like, you should be a life coach. I'm like, yeah, I don't have time for that. Like full time attorney here, who has time for that? But then, know, we all know what happened in 2020. So that gave me some time. But what do I do? Essentially, I help people find the hidden time of their day. Time that they can use to pour back into themselves as they pursue their goals, their purpose, their life passions, while still maintaining their current responsibilities, but without stress and without overwhelm.

So I look at productivity and work-life balance or finding hidden time is essentially about multitasking. But multitasking in the right way. Because a lot of people will tell you like, multitasking is bad, it's divided attention. But think about driving a car, you're multitasking because you're looking at the light, you're looking to make sure this car isn't coming into your lane, you're pushing the gas, pushing the brakes. We multitask all the time. But are you multitasking right? Like are you putting together tasks that go well together?

When I work out, I work out and listen to music. I work out and listen to podcasts. So we multitask a lot of things. A lot of people like, you know, walk on the treadmill and watch a TV show or, you know, do the stationary bike and watch a TV show. We multitask all the time. So when I talk about finding the hidden time, it's essentially how can we help you to multitask more efficiently and more effectively in a way that's going to actually work for you.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (05:36)

love that multitasking or multitasking. It can take so many different forms. And I'm wondering if you've seen some people perhaps doing something that needs a bit less mental attention and pairing that with something that's a bit more mentally involved. The example that comes into my head is sitting on a train and then doing some sort of work.

on a computer at the same time. Is that the sort of thing that works well in your experience?

Coach Lee (06:08)

Yes, for me, that's exactly like what it is. For example, I have, because of traffic and school being back in, like a good hour commute each way to work and home. And so what can I do when I'm in the car? I can listen to podcasts, I can listen to audiobooks. If it's after 8 a.m. and like doctors offices are open, maybe I can call and schedule a dentist appointment, a doctor's appointment. Those things that we're always like, oh, I need to remember to do this, but yet it's still you're sitting in this car for this time, how about use it? Or...

I always wish I could catch up with this person or I wish I had time to call this family member. Again, you're sitting in this car for even if your commute isn't an hour like mine is, 30 minutes, 20 minutes, even if, you know, whether that's you and them make it a schedule to where, every Monday I'm gonna call you when I get in the car and we're gonna talk till I get to work. Okay, cool. So they know to expect that. Or even if you just, you know, make your random calls. And so yes, it is about finding what tasks work together. I'm a person.

say that I'm good at multitasking and that's not to like toot my own horn or anything like that but I'm the person who like for example at work as an attorney we have to go to court. I'm the person who can be in court like file reviewing like reviewing my new cases while sitting in court and still know what's going on around me. Some of my co-workers are like if I'm reviewing the file I know nothing about what's going on so like I'll be sitting there typing and the judge will be asking a question I'll stop answer the judge's question or tell my co-worker something and go right back to it and they're like how do you know what's going on?

And I guess my brain works weird in that way. So for other people, they wouldn't be able to multitask in that way. If they're in court, they're like, okay, I can put in notes from what's happening in the court, but I can't work on anything else outside of this courtroom. And so, yes, I found that that works good for me, but that, for example, it might not work good for you. But ultimately what I help clients do in the, I guess the benefit of productivity, not even the benefit, that's not the word I want to use, the...

The balance in productivity is figuring out what works for you. I don't want you to be like, hey, Coach Lee does this, so I have to do this. Because if it doesn't work for you, your brain, and your lifestyle, you're not going to be productive. You're not going to be consistent. You're not going to get it done. Just like there might be things that you do, and I'm like, no, I can't do that. I'm a morning person. If you told me to stay up till 10, 11 o'clock at night, I'm just going to be rubbing my eyes and like, I'm physically here, but mentally I'm not.

And so finding what works for you is important to be able to have that consistency, that discipline, and to be able to really be productive and keep things going.

Yes, and I think, I know I am a morning person. I'm not a night person. So I won't tell you what time I wake up because then you would be really appalled.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (08:41)

⁓ okay. No, tell

me. I apologise so much. ⁓ So, what time?

Coach Lee (08:47)

No, no, no, no problem. I

up at 2:30 in the morning, but I go to bed at like 8:30, 8:45 p.m. Which is why I was saying if you ask me to do something at 10 o'clock, if I'm forced to be awake, like I'm literally like eyes burning physically there, but mentally my brain is sleeping.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (08:57)

Wow.

at 10.

Coach Lee (09:09)

Yeah, anything human

can have an eye.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (09:13)

Do you get up at 2.30 though? And this is not because I'm not a morning person. I'm just wondering, how do you get enough hours of sleep? And are you working after 2.30? Are you getting your exercise? What does your morning look like? I'm so curious about that.

Coach Lee (09:31)

You sound like my mom. Literally like my parents every time they hear this they're like are you still getting up at 2 30 and I'm like yes and the weekend was Labor Day here in the US and so I was home my mom was like can you stop waking up at 2 30 what could be so important at that time of the morning and I'm like my life my stuff so for me I get up at 2 30 and so I go through my morning routine like I read my devotional journal all of that good stuff get ready you know brush my teeth I go ahead and put on my workout clothes I work out from home so my

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (09:34)

Sorry.

Coach Lee (10:00)

My workout, my office is my workout room slash office. So, so then, you know, I pack my lunch and everything like that for work. And then I come into the office, and typically I'm in my office by like between 4:15 and 4:30. So that gives me about an hour to work on my business. So normally, doing those things that you can't do when you have client calls. So prepping the client calls, responding to emails, personal development, things like that. Then I do my workout after my workout, take a shower, get dressed to go to the full-time job. So I get up at two 30 so that I can

take care of me important to me because of the fact it's 2.30 in the morning. Who in the world is looking for me at that time? Who is gonna distract me? Absolutely nobody.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (10:42)

is part of your focus about finding the time when people don't need your attention.

Coach Lee (10:47)

Sometimes it not necessarily but that could be a good place to start for me My workouts are non-negotiable and because of what I do for work like as an attorney like right now I'm not in a trial period but tomorrow I'm actually leaving to go to a training for work and I'll be there until Friday and So because of that it's easy to get thrown off of your schedule if you're like, I have to go to this conference Am I gonna really want to work out after the conference for example? Oftentimes you might say no and so I used to be I've always been a morning person

But I used to work out in the evenings. after like within my first year of being an attorney and starting to see that, okay, trials don't always end at five o'clock. And even if it does end, you know, at five you have to go back to the office, pack your stuff up, drive to the gym. Because at that point I was working out in the gym before I was working out at home. And so I saw that my workouts could be kind of.

more likely to be interrupted because if I'm stuck at work, if I wanted to attend a specific class that started at a time, but if I'm leaving work late, I'm not going to get to the class on time. now I'm hungry because I missed lunch because I was in court. So now I want to eat before I work out. So I found that working out in the evening wasn't as conducive because there were there will be things that would cause me to have to miss it. Whereas if I work out in the morning before work, besides oversleeping, what's going to make me miss that? Nothing.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (12:08)

Right.

Coach Lee (12:09)

And so that's kind of how we were talking about, you know, knowing what's important in the season. ⁓ My coworkers know, like, if I don't get my walk in or if I don't eat, they're like, did you eat? Did you get your walk-in? I get antsy, and I get not necessarily snappy, but I can get a little short because that's like my stress relief. So if I make sure I get my workout in the morning, I set myself up to be a happier person and everybody else will appreciate it.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (12:36)

Nice. It's coming back to self-care. This is so fascinating because I have been talking with podcast guests from all different professions, and they are all prioritising self-care. And that's what you are doing because you have your exercise, and also you are prioritising eating. I feel passionate about eating real food.

However, that might look for an individual. And I'm guessing you'd be the same. You're not going to, probably. I'm wondering, you're probably prioritising other foods instead of just having Coca-Cola for a day when you have this much going on, am I right?

Coach Lee (13:17)

Yes, I don't, can't tell you the last time I had a soda. I will say that I had pizza for lunch, but that's me like getting rid of some leftovers. But dinner is spaghetti squash and meat sauce. So I'm very much, yes, I know what fuels me both in terms of workouts, my walk, drinking my water, and also the foods that fuel me so that I'm not sluggish, lethargic, tired, different things like that. But yes, I would say self-care for me kind of fits into multiple buckets. Multiple buckets.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (13:47)

It fits into the buckets. So you get your rest, you get your movement, and you are fitting that into a busy day. That's a priority. you encourage all of your productivity clients and everybody around you to fit in some sort of movement in the day?

Coach Lee (14:07)

Yes, but no if that's what they want to do. Yes I don't try to force it on them Oftentimes most people who talk about they want to find time working out or eating healthy is somewhere in there And so I often encourage them to start small so whether it's okay You have kids what if you take the kids out for you know Just a quick spin around the neighborhood just five ten minutes just to get into the habit They burn off some energy you at least felt like you moved a little bit. What about that? So yes, I encourage it for those who want that wish

A lot of people really do want that, and they just aren't sure how to fit it in, but I don't force it on anyone who's not mentioning working out. Because ultimately, if you want to find what's going to stick, it needs to be something that you want to do, not something that I think you should do because we know the benefits of self-care, working out, and eating healthy.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (14:53)

We absolutely have to. There are two topics that are really coming to mind. And the first one that I want to ask you about is the emotional energy of doing what you do, because being an attorney, I'm guessing, and you can let me know if I'm right, guessing this, that you would be dealing with some very emotionally intense work. And I'm wondering if you ever need a moment before or after that to

balance yourself emotionally or catch your breath after that and how you look after yourself when you are working with such ⁓ intense situations.

Coach Lee (15:34)

Yes, and I'm a criminal defense attorney, so I'm dealing with crime all day. People who are accused of crime, you know, dealing with literally their lives potentially being taken away and things of that nature. So yes, it can be emotionally taxing. I don't want to say I'm desensitised and that I'm not empathetic, but I think I do a good job of compartmentalising. Like I'm able to leave work at work, and that's probably also because I literally leave work at work. So then that helps me the emotion aspect of work at work.

⁓ Obviously, yes, there are times that it bleeds over, but I think knowing that, hey, asking myself, did I do my best work? Did I do my best job? What else could I have done? Or, you know, what can I do tomorrow to make this better? Like asking myself, kind of checking in with myself to make sure that I'm showing up in the best way possible so that I don't let what might be going on in life for me affect my ability to show up and care and do for my clients, especially because literally,

Their lives are in my hands in a sense of, as a defense attorney, I'm defending them in them being accused of whatever the crime is that can have years to literally life in prison.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (16:46)

Definitely. It's their lives. It's how they're going to spend the next however many years. So it sounds like when you're leaving work at work and you're stepping away, then you're mentally switching away from that to give yourself space. You're actually helping me to understand people who work in intense industries, be it health or educational law, things like that. Because sometimes the way people talk about

issues, can have a very minimal amount of emotion in how they're talking about things. And I'm wondering, is that sometimes because it's how they're looking after themselves in not drowning in the emotion to make sure that they're okay? that part of it?

Coach Lee (17:35)

think yes, in the sense that if I think of my coworkers who I know work late or bring work home and how I feel, this is my perception of them, how I feel that they might feel more frazzled or like all over the place, the ones who I feel feel that exhibit that are typically the ones who are working late, bringing work home and never really shutting out work or like, know, know, emails come to their phone and always responding and always receptive to that.

Whereas those who have a little bit more of the boundary aspect of even if they're like, okay, I'm going to work late. I'm telling myself I'm working late today so that I don't have to work on the weekend or whatever that might be. They seem to be calmer. ⁓ So I would say, like, if I'm just comparing across my coworkers, that yes, that seems to be the case. And I know my coworkers who like work out or eat healthy. Whereas some, I'm like, when's the last time you drank water? Literally, please tell me the last time you had water.

So yeah, I can think of if I just compare what I know about my coworkers. Yes, I can say that at least in in my small niche of the world.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (18:41)

Absolutely. You're bringing us back to basics, especially with the example you just gave, because people can be doing the most life or death work, but sorry, I really want to move this camera a little bit that way. That's better. People can be thinking that for a few minutes. People can be doing the most life or death work and yet the most essential thing in a moment could be, you hydrate?

Coach Lee (19:08)

Yes. Yes, I've had coworkers, like I remember one that we thought it was a heart attack because she has a family history of heart attack and she's like sitting on the floor breathing. I'm like, girl, is you okay? And she's like, I think I'm having a heart attack. And I'm like, can we call 911? Can someone call 911? Can you unlock your phone and we call your husband? Like, we do something? It ended up being a panic attack, but she was so stressed out about a case that

It was basically weighing on her. And she's one of those ones that I can think about who's talking about how she's gained weight, how she needs to work out and different things like that, but wasn't doing it because she was pouring her all into the job, but in a way that she wasn't taking care of herself. I like to believe I pour a lot of myself into my work, but I also know my coworkers know my boss know. Don't call me after five unless it's an emergency. I'm not talking about work outside of work hours. Half of three-quarters of my coworkers don't even have my number because y'all might abuse it.

So I, and I think for me knowing that when I came out of law school, I knew I wanted to like be a public defender, do this type of work. And I knew from, you know, watching TV, the books, the stereotypes, public pretenders, all of that, of what people say and think about us, that number one, I knew I wanted to change the stereotype of that, change the game of that in the work that I did, in my work. And then with that, that in order to do that and not burn myself out,

How can I make sure that when I'm at work, I'm at work? Like I'm locked in. If that means I don't socialise with my coworkers a lot, okay, cool. I'm here to work. Y'all might be hanging out, talking all day, but you're okay with working late, bringing work home, weekends. I'm not. So I think, yes, it definitely goes to what you're putting in is what you're gonna get out.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (20:57)

Was that the stereotype that you had seen of lawyers working long hours, or was there more to the stereotype?

Coach Lee (21:05)

Yes, I would say specifically in terms of like public defenders or a government attorney is public, they call us public pretenders, i.e. you're not real lawyers, ⁓ high case lows, don't talk to their clients, know, just gonna push a plea, different things like that. Yes, the working long hours, both in terms of public defense, as well as just probably any other type of lawyer, especially private lawyers who are, you know, have their own firm.

You're at the beck and call of the client because that's where your money's gonna come from. If I don't answer this call, I might miss out on a case, which means I just missed out on money. So yes, that's what I heard, I saw, you know, regular TV shows, which we know TV shows are drama, so they're not necessarily, you know, the true, true life. But yeah, it was definitely what I heard, what I saw, what I thought, but also what I knew that I didn't want it to be for

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (21:55)

Absolutely. TV is, of course, a version of reality. You're nodding a lot. So it's not exactly like TV.

Coach Lee (22:02)

Yes, a version.

No. Have you ever heard of the show, How to Get Away with Murder?

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (22:11)

I heard of it, but I've seen other law shows more than that one.

Coach Lee (22:17)

I was gonna say that started out maybe real, but after season one, half way through season one, you're like, absolutely not what any of these things have been. But yeah, there's a lot of shows that have the gist, but that's about it.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (22:33)

And I think one of the stereotypes for high-pressure professions that we see in TV shows is also that there's an extreme situation every single day, because that's what makes TV interesting. And these questions are just coming to me as we unpack all of this. comparing it to the medical shows, they have the most bizarre situations.

Every time I mean, how many times did Meredith Grey nearly die, right? I'm wondering, do you do you perhaps have some phases in your work where there is a bit of routine and things are a bit more settled? And I'm wondering some people go into work, whether they are starting a business, like you did, or a different sort of business, or they're going into a public service role. And

Coach Lee (23:08)

Right!

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (23:31)

They think they're going to be rescuing someone from a cliff every day. And do people ever struggle with the routine and trying to keep their productivity or grow their success when life is a little bit more routine and steady.

Coach Lee (23:49)

So I think that's a double-edged sword. Just because there's a routine also doesn't mean that every day is the same. So no, every day isn't high pressure, someone's about to die, or there's some health issue. Are there those moments within the day? Yes. Is that a moment within every day? No. Are there days where...

You know, you just have an office day. Yes. And honestly, you're grateful for those because you've been running around so long that you haven't been able to sit in front of your computer and maybe put your notes in or figure out what's going on or check your voicemail. And so while every day is the same, no two days are the same. So while you might have that general aspect of like, every day I'm going to go to court, then I'm going to come to my office. What happens in court? How long you're in court and what court looks like that day? Because judges are people too.

Maybe the judge is in a bad mood and so therefore the client's office are getting blown up, meaning like if they were gonna resolve the case, the judge is like, nope, don't wanna accept that or things like that. Like they're humans too. And so as I progress within my career, like now I do most of the murder cases. So I do most of the dead body cases. So for me, I have a lot more routine in the sense of I have a lot more office time, but also each of my cases, the discovery, which is basically the paperwork involved in the case are hundreds.

to a thousand pages per case. So me having this extra office time is good because I have a lot more stuff I need to read through to go through for this case. So while I might not be in court every day, I'm still in my office doing a lot. Like this morning, I went to the jail first, then I came to the office, put notes in and pretty much just in my office for the rest of the day preparing. Because like I said, the rest of this week I'm going to be at training, so I'm not physically going to be in my office for the next three days. So planning and preparing to be a way to make sure.

You know, my voicemail was changed, my email is set up. My coworkers know, hey, where to find me if you need me, things like that. And then, you know, when I come back from training, I have to go to our Orlando office on Monday. Then I'll be back into my physical office on Tuesday. So it'll be a week since I've seen my office by the time I physically come back to work. But I would have been at one of our partner offices on Monday. So every day is the same in the sense of eight to five, I'm at work. But what happens within that day is going to differ.

And so I think people do struggle with not so much the routine, definitely not the monotony, but finding the time to do the different roles that you have to play. Going to court, going to the jail, meeting with clients in your office, talking to people on the phone, responding to emails, checking your voicemail, doing the prep work to be each of these places and do each of these things. So I think people struggle more so with the, have to do all these things, how do I get them done?

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (26:33)

So it's actually the variety in a way, all of the different things to do. And a few things popped up here. The admin side of your work. wanted to ask about that in a moment because we all have an element of our work that has quite an admin side. And these days, there are trains of thought where some people get a virtual assistant, get AI to do things. And I do want to know,

How you approach balancing, getting the technology to handle your admin, and still doing some things yourself. But I needed to comment that also it seems like some people have the kind of brain where you can flick from thing to thing. I know I feel like I have that sort of brain where it's easier when I flick, and you might've worked with some clients who don't do that. But I'm definitely wondering how do you handle

the admin side of it and not drowning in the detail or perfectionism, that sort of thing.

Coach Lee (27:36)

perfectionism. ⁓ we still struggle with that. As I say, I'm a recovering perfectionist. In terms of the tech side, number one, I sync all of my calendars. Meaning if I open my phone right now and look at my calendar, I can see my work calendar, my personal calendar, and my coaching calendar. Work, everything is green on the work calendar. I think purple is business and then pink is ⁓ personal. So I can like, if I'm going to schedule something and I'm like, do I have anything? I'm like, okay, let's see here.

what's going on today, you know, what's going on? And so I can look to see because generally speaking, I know automatically Monday through Friday, I'm at work. But if I have to set a doctor's appointment, you know, for example, during work hours, do I have court? Yes or no, because that's gonna come into play if I'm like, hey, I'm gonna go to the doctor, I'm gonna go to the dentist, I'm gonna go get my hair done, or even, hey, I wanna go to the jail in the morning, okay, do I have anything scheduled? So I know that.

Once you're in the jail, you can bring a watch in, which you can't bring your cell phone, so nobody can call you. So you kind of have to know to be able to plan and strategize for your day. So for me, the biggest tech thing is my calendar and syncing my calendar so that I can open it and get a, like literally I use the monthly view of this is what's going on in my life. Cause I know generally speaking, Monday through Friday I'm at work, but what do I need to do at work? And can I do something for personal?

During that time, or even like, can I hop on a coffee chat or something during my lunch break at work if I need to. So tech, my calendar is the biggest thing. I don't do a lot of automation or anything like that. I'm pretty much a one-woman show, but I also, by getting up early, I kind of know the pockets that I work different things in. like the morning hours, of like checking my email, going through that really quick, figuring out what I need to do in terms of business, same thing with personal. ⁓ And then,

Kind of like midday when I do like my content time, like that, checking back in on that. But my calendar is the main tech thing that I do and making sure that everything syncs so that like my coaching calendar syncs to where if something gets scheduled, it'll like, you know, block off on people's ability to schedule appointments and things like that. But also because tech makes mistakes, making sure that like if an appointment goes, that I also make sure I click the yes on it so that it'll push it and force it to make sure it gets on the calendar just in case it didn't auto sync to the calendar.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (29:59)

That is such a crucial lesson. And I think people need to remember that point. said that tech makes mistakes. We are so dependent on technology now that we just trust it. And it has came so far, but we do absolutely need to still use our critical thinking.

Coach Lee (30:17)

Yeah, and I think that's the positive and negative of AI. I love to use AI for brainstorming. Like, hey, I'm thinking about, for example, planning this month. I want to talk about, this is what's going on for me and my personal life and business. I want to find a way to bring that into my content for this month to help clients see or help people see X, Y, and Z. So help me brainstorm themes for each week that I can talk about. But I also...

Love that for the brainstorming aspect, but I also found myself becoming a little too reliant on, I call it chatty, on AI in the sense of sometimes writing my captions and I'm like, this doesn't really sound like me, but also this was easier to do, let's just post it. But I can see the difference in conversion in the sense of not much engagement. Whereas if I look at the post, like even just for this week, the like, I wrote myself, and I might've put it in chatty after I.

fully wrote it and was like, should I rearrange any of this to make it flow better? And then, you know, making the decision from there. So I don't use too much AI, but I use AI more so as kind of like a lot of people say like your, um, your accountability partners and things like that. use it a lot more for brainstorming and especially where if I'm doing brainstorming of like, I had these ideas in my head, not sure how to strategise, make them flow or how I can make these three things that sound really different fit together. It's really good for things like that.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (31:43)

that approach. So, for the captions, is that for your social media posts? I really appreciate that approach to the social media posts, because sometimes you can tell if an account is mostly posting words from AI, you can tell it often has a lot more of those little, oh, there are specific symbols that come up a lot.

Coach Lee (31:48)

Yes.

the dashes.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (32:11)

The dashes and I think a star, there are a few pictures that come up a lot when AI wrote it, but you can also just tell, and there's an authenticity, especially if you're talking from the heart and from a personal experience that AI could not have known about, then that's absolutely going to be something that can't be replicated. And have you seen that that connects with your audience a lot more because

they can see that it's a bit more real.

Coach Lee (32:43)

Yes, I'm typically a more like in your face type of person, but I found that like chatty waters down my message, I guess tries to make it nicer. And I'm like, no, no, no, no, I need to go back to yelling and being disruptive. That's what people, they need to hear that. And like, I might say it in the video, but then the caption sounds really soft. And I'm like, they don't match. So yes, I can tell.

And so I assume that other people can tell at least based off of the lack of likes and things of that nature. To me, that feels like they don't resonate given I know the algorithm does its own thing sometimes. So may or may not be that, but at least since I think it was like last Wednesday is when I was on a coaching call and my coach was talking about like being more disruptive. And I'm like, that's what it is. That's what I'm missing. had started like the word hadn't come to me, but I was realising like something's missing, and I was trying to figure out what it wasn't. When she said the word disruptive, I'm like,

That's what it is. started watering myself down. And so since then, like last Wednesday, like I said, was when I kind of was like, no, you're writing these again. You have the outline that they helped you come up with. You know what you're talking about. Come on, bring it out. And so even since like last week, I feel better and I can feel, I guess, see a little bit better in terms of engagement.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (34:02)

Do get a bit more gutsy and outspoken when you're saying what you really wanted to say? I love that so much. And I personally think that decades ago, entrepreneurs, the classic entrepreneurs like Branson and so on, they did outrageous things and they didn't feel so cautious about things. now we are using the catchphrases like strategic all the time.

Coach Lee (34:08)

Yes.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (34:31)

No offence to those who are in love with the word strategic, but we're trying to fit a structure. You're saying that. And it sounds like you are having a bit more bravery and just saying what you really want to say. I'm wondering, what do you get gutsy about? How are you pushing the envelope? And I'm also wondering, where do you draw the line? For me personally, anyone who knows me at all will know that

I can be a little bit too passionate when I really care about something. So it's amazing that we're both talking, but I think I need to learn from you because I'm wondering for those of us who are passionate about a cause, anything like that, how do we find the balance between getting gutsy and still not just taking something too far?

Coach Lee (35:26)

think for me it's reminding myself that at the end of the day it's their life, just like it's my life. And if I can see that you're struggling and this is why you're struggling but you don't want to listen, okay, live and let live. That's fine. So for me, I think I get like passionate about like planning. Like why are you working 24 seven? Why are you working on vacation?

Why are you bringing work home? Why are you neglecting time with your kids, your family? These things, your why, your reason for doing this, why are you neglecting that time with that? And so, especially as women, we often feel guilty about taking time for self, self care, not showing up, you know, those things. Not saying like be a fluke or anything like that, but we feel that we have to keep doing more. And so for me, it's about letting you know and reminding you that you got here.

it away. Like you got here for a reason, you got here in a way. And what got you here may or may not keep you here, depending. Do you really want to hustle and grind? Like one thing that I'm passionate about is I'm anti-hustle and grind. I'm not anti-hard work, but I'm anti-hustle and grind. Cause you don't have to hustle and grind in order to get results. You can work hard and working hard can still have you sleeping, eating healthy, drinking your water. Cause oftentimes people who talk about

hustle and grind and no offense to the men. Like it's that, that bro marketing, man, I'll sleep when I'm dead, things of that nature. But then at the same time, if a woman does it, you also look in and you're like, well, why isn't she home with her kids? Who's watching her kids? You know, assuming they have kids. But so it's like the two sides of like hustle, hustle, hustle. But also judgment because where her kids at? Who watching them?

Who made dinner last night or whatever, the different roles you play in life. And so for me, I think that's what I get passionate about. Hustling grind, it's a no for me, but that doesn't mean I won't work hard.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (37:30)

I'm so grateful to hear you saying all of this because the hustle is literally impossible for some people. When we do have a family we are responsible for and we have a cause we're passionate about and work that we have to do, we can't literally just do the work all the time. It won't happen because something will be missed. And if you've been working with people who were

working on their vacations, working when they could be spending time with their families. I'm wondering how, how do they overcome this? Especially do you work with anyone who perhaps does multiple types of work, like maybe staying connected with community, but also perhaps doing a nine to five and also their own business.

Is anyone that you work with juggling something like that and how do they manage all that?

Coach Lee (38:31)

So it makes me think about ⁓ one of my clients. is, I was gonna say she was an attorney. She is an attorney. She owns her own firm. So it's the combination of she works nine to five as an attorney, but also she is the business, you know, her and her partner, like it's two of them in the firm. So, which means, you know, they have to get silage for themselves. They also have a receptionist. So, you know, they're responsible for more income than just themselves. And she was married and, you know, had dogs and wanted to work out of all these things. And so for her, she literally worked late every night.

would then leave work, go home and keep working, would work on the weekends. She was like, I don't know the last time I took a vacation. I'm like, what do you mean you don't know the last time you took a vacation? She's like, I don't know. Like every time, you know, my wife asked about going on vacation, it's always like, basically I can't. You're the boss. You own the firm. What do you mean you can't? And so we worked together to create a schedule. And for her,

She was like an evening person. She was like, okay, I do want to work late, but I want to work late so that I can stop working all weekend. So, okay, you already was working late and working weekend. So, okay, I'll give you keep working late. If that means you don't bring work home when you leave the office and you don't work all day on the weekend, I'll give you that. So I'm not here to say you have to start working at five. If this is what work-life balance is going to look like for you, I'm here to help you create that. So we literally work together to create a schedule to where she will work until like six.

6.30 every night and then go home, leave the work at work, go home, eat dinner, watch a TV show and everything with her wife and get ready for bed. We were, like we made the schedule, three days into working together, she's like, I left work and I'm like, it's five. What do mean you left work? She's like, I finished what I needed to do for the day. Okay? And so from that point forward, she didn't work late. She also didn't work.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (40:17)

You

Coach Lee (40:28)

weekends or bring work home with her. So we found that like pretty much she was reacting to the day. A client will call, the secretary would transfer her. So if she's in the middle of say writing a motion or working on this thing, because the phone rang, she would stop and divert her attention there, which means once she got off this call, now for me to go back to this task, I got to figure out where I was. Now I'm thinking about this client who just called or maybe, hey, a new client just called, let me run out to, you know, go to the jail to go meet the client or whatever the case may be.

So we got it to where, let's control your calendar. Let's block your calendar. Can we bring your secretary in on this so she knows, just because a client calls, if it's not, just say that these are my client, A, B, and C are my focus clients for this week because they have motions coming up, trial, whatever the case may be. If it's not these three clients calling, take a message, see if you can help. I'll call them back before the end of the day, but it doesn't have to stop what I'm doing right now. So essentially, we started taking control of her day, taking control of her schedule.

And so because of that, she was then able to start working late. She also was on the board for, I know it was one organisation, it might've been two, and they met say like every Thursday at like nine in the morning or something like that. So she had to plan time to be able to go there for those appointments at well, and was like, okay, well, if those appointments are by the jail, why don't after the meetings, you just make that your jail day and just after the meeting, go ahead and go to the jail, check in with any clients you need to check in with, and then come to the office. So we started making her schedule work for her.

Her wife was surprised when she started coming home to eat the dinner that she cooked. And then it was like, wait, you're not gonna, you don't have to do any more work. We can watch a TV show together. And so then she ended up having an unexpected death in her family and she had to go to New York during the time of us working together. But she was like, I dropped everything. I went to New York. I didn't feel guilty about it. Everything was taken care of. I'm not stressed. I'm not overwhelmed. I didn't bring any work with me given if this would have happened before, she was like, I probably would have brought work with me even though I was here to deal with the death of a family.

She's like, I didn't. And I felt good about it. And then later on that year, she started working out, started going to the gym, taking the dogs for longer walks to at least let that be movement in the beginning. And then she was like, I think I want to get back into the gym now that I've got my weekends back. Cool. We started bringing the gym back into it. And then I saw her, because she's around the courthouse where I am. She was like, I'm going to Puerto Rico next week for a week. You want what now?

She's like, yeah, I can't tell you the last time I took a vacation. She's like, I thought my notice of unavailability with the court, we are going on vacation. And I think since then, it's probably been two, maybe three years since we've worked together. I know for sure she's taking at least one vacation a year. And I'm like, she's like, my wife is happy. My wife says thank you. And I'm like, she welcome. You did the work. We built a schedule for you to actually work late, but you went above and beyond and you took off not even working late, let alone not bringing the work home.

So yes, I think it can be a mix of I'm the boss, I'm the attorney, I also have these other roles, but they're all meshing together, and I'm doing one thing well, being an attorney, slash two, I guess. Being an attorney slash being the boss, but not necessarily being these other things well. And though her wife was very understanding and was like, you know, I understand, I understand. She never nagged her, never complained, you know, never, to my knowledge. She said she was very supportive of her and never, you know, fussed at her about it.

But once she was able to devote more time to her, she also wasn't complaining about that either.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (43:55)

Exactly. People can be supportive and understanding when you need to be more busy, but they can be grateful when you are showing up and being present for them as well. You shared some crucial lessons for everybody in all of this. First of all, I noticed it sounds like the calendar is organised based on where things are, as well as the buffer in between the moment where

She was going to multiple things that were around the same courthouse location. That's something everybody needs to know. It reminded me of a moment, a while ago when I had a bundle of meetings that were all in the one few blocks of each other, right? And if your clients are doing something similar to that, just put everything together physically, then that can free up their time instead of zigzagging around the place.

So you are teaching everybody about that, which is awesome. And also you are encouraging people to have a holiday. This isn't just how can you do the work you want to do. It's have a holiday. The reason why that resonates so much to me is because, sorry, but it's all about the cliched phrases. You do only live once and so on. We've all seen deadpots society and we're all into seizing the day and so on. But seriously,

I mean, someone could wake up five or 10 years from now and wish they had gone on that holiday or wish they had seen a place or been with people before they no longer have the opportunity. It sounds like you're reconnecting people with their lives.

Coach Lee (45:38)

Yeah, or at least their why. Figure out what is your why. Like if family is your why. Because maybe you're in a season where, and I'm sure when she first was growing her firm, that truly was the focus. Because you quit your job to open this firm, so if you don't make money here, you don't eat. I understand that. In that season, which goes back to what we were kind of talking about in the very beginning, the season and what's important. So yes, reconnecting them to their life, but more importantly, reconnecting them to their why.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (46:07)

Your why. So the season, it's about the reason within the season that you are in. Now that's a phrase that we can share everywhere. Know the reason within the season you are in.

Coach Lee (46:16)

Yes.

Yes, yes.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (46:28)

Absolutely. So I'm curious, how did you, it's funny looking at this at the end of the conversation, but how did you get into this? How did you, how did you decide to start supporting people's productivity as the business that you were focusing on outside of Euro 95? How did that all start?

Coach Lee (46:52)

Well, I never set out to do this. Like I said in the beginning, so I used to do health coaching, like Beachbody, like Body, like Shanti, P90X, like those workout programs. I was doing those workouts, like coming out of law school, and we were kind of in this accountability group, like a support group, where we would kind of like post our workouts, cheer each other on. So in the course of that, people were kind of struggling with like, I don't have time to work out. Like, how do you get your meal prep? And like, how can I shorten the amount of time it takes me to meal prep?

My kids won't eat this, my husband won't eat that. Like they don't do leftovers. So kind of like brainstorming ways for them to like meal prep easier, more efficiently, like making meals that like, okay, maybe you have a protein and everybody has a different, you know, a different side, different things like that. So essentially encouraging the ladies within that group. And so from there, they were like, you know, you're encouraging, you should be a life coach, which goes back to my, I don't have time, full-time attorney who has time for that. ⁓ And I was like, yeah, no, cause they were like, pretty much everyone was like,

How do you do it all? And I'm like, what do you mean, how do I do it all? Number one, I don't. I say no to a lot of things. I get that you see a lot of the things that I'm saying yes to, but also I plan these things out. And so people are asking like, how do you find time for this? And made me realise that people struggle with time or time management or how to maximise that time. Kind of how you were talking about the appointments, putting them all together. Like, can I go to the grocery store after work?

because I'm already in that area instead of leaving on a Saturday morning when I literally was just at my house to drive to the grocery store, like things like that. So people kind of kept saying that I was like, I don't have time, don't have time. Pandemic, fast forward. Thankfully didn't lose my job, but you know, the world shut down and everyone's at home. I made it a week into the pandemic, and I was like, I'm so bored. I'm reading books, I'm doing puzzles, I'm watching TV.

Going for walks, working out, I'm like, I'm so bored. I need something to do to stimulate me. I'm used to working. And so like our job was like, you know, understandably, we don't care about you being online eight to five, just get your work done. Like if you have kids and so you only can work, you know, late night shifts because of your kids, whatever, because I'm a morning person. I was pretty much finishing my work every day by lunchtime-ish. So now I still have eight hours, so I'm going to be ready to go to bed. What am I going to do?

So basically all those thoughts started coming back to me, people saying, you you're motivating, you're encouraging, you should be a life coach. And I'm like, okay, let's look into this. Let's figure out what this is. And you know how you start talking about things and when you open up social media, the algorithm is now feeding you those things that you're talking about. So I'm getting all these ads for free webinar, life coach, learn about life. So I'm signing up for all these free webinars because probably the attorney in me is like, if I'm gonna do something, I'm gonna do it right. So I'm signing up for all these free webinars to figure out.

What is this life coaching that people say I should do? The program that I ultimately ended up going through to get certified, I made it halfway through the first video, which is all of like three to five minutes. And I was like, oh, this is what coaching is? I understood why people said that I should do this now. I'm in, I'm in. And that's how I got into it. And so I used pretty much 2020, like, you know, pandemic happened in March until pretty much the end of the year. And then, you know,

took, taking my training certification, bought a domain, bought the website, set up my website, reached out to a couple of friends who are like, hey, you've who in passing, I've talked about like, hey, that tip you told me, I did that and it worked kind of reached out to them like, hey, thinking about becoming a life coach, I know you said I've helped you in the past. Can I like formally help you and you kind of critique me as a coach, what should change the length of my sessions, the format, things like that, pretty much what I didn't know they were called at the time beta testers.

to help me get everything formalised and kind of get that through 2020 and then official LLC went live January 1st of 2021.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (50:49)

Awesome. So you had that experience during the pandemic, as we talked about earlier, but it sounds like what stood out to me is that on this surface, it looked like what people needed to learn was what to eat and how to get movement. But the real learning curve that people actually needed was the timing and how to organise their day.

And you are teaching me something in that because my experience was during the pandemic, I was actually focusing on the what to eat part. I think that we had such parallel but opposite experiences. I was exploring, okay, which carb can go with which bean and so on. But now as life gets more busy, especially, I think we are more busy now compared to the days when we were just at home. Yes, all over the world, people are getting so busy.

Coach Lee (51:17)

It's in the light.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (51:46)

And so our challenge now is beyond what to eat. It's how to fit that in. And I am hoping if there's any other word of wisdom without telling people what to eat, I welcome any tips for everybody on how to just make that easy. I know there are the YouTube videos on five-minute meals, 10 minute meals, things you can make quickly.

Did you find that those hacks or you mentioned the shopping hacks, but did you find those tricks are what gets people on track feeling better?

Coach Lee (52:26)

think it depends on the person. Because maybe for you and for me, I started out like when I started working out with calorie counting. Now, the things that I eat now are completely different than things that I ate then when I was counting calories. I'm counting calories to eat Doritos. 12 Doritos is 160 calories. Whereas now, I would say I can't tell you the last time I had chips, but generally speaking, because I had pizza, I had pizza and chips. But generally speaking, I don't buy chips. So besides this, I can't really tell you the last time I had chips.

that the calorie counting I was doing then the things that I was eating then when I first started it's completely different now and so I think you have to start where you are don't worry about perfection because for me when I started counting calories and just being like okay this is what I like to eat how can I eat this and still you know make this progress and then as you start doing the work your taste buds change your desire changes and then you want to

do better, okay, like maybe I'll get out the potato chips, so maybe I'll move on to baked chips. And then eventually you move on to like maybe crackers or something. And then eventually you're like, okay, give me a rice cake or something like, you you step yourself through the process to where you then get to the point of you're like, chips, that wasted calories, empty carbs, like not gonna do anything for me. Give me some rice, some beans, some potatoes. Give me something that's gonna, you know, fuel me. So I said, start where you are.

If you're still at the potato chip phase, that's fine, but start there. Maybe the thing is you go from eating a bag of potato chips to half a bag. Progress. Small actions compound over time to big results. So wherever you are, whether it's working out, eating healthy, trying to, know, brain dump and make a schedule, start where you are, give yourself grace, and just keep moving forward and making progress.

You're going to see the things that you like about what you're doing and you're to see the things that you don't like. Keep doing what you like. The things that you don't like, try new things until you get that right combo and keep tweaking it as you keep going.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (54:34)

taking steps and having grace for yourself. I totally agree with the gradual changes and the chip example is aligning with almost everybody. I think we all have those comfort foods. The example I love is for fries. To me, the step after deep-fried fries, wherever, maybe it goes from

the fast food places to then perhaps the place that's a little bit more authentic. But then my ideal is to get a potato and wash off the dirt, cut the potato and put those pieces in the oven. it might, yes, all the air fryer, those are so popular now. And it's quicker because you don't have to wait for an oven to preheat. So

Coach Lee (55:19)

with an air fryer.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (55:31)

Those things, you mentioned the air fryer, and that's even an efficiency. So it's about building efficiency into everything that we do. And you mentioned having grace for yourself and meeting yourself where you are. I'm guessing that would come up with people even changing their professional lives as well.

Coach Lee (55:49)

Yes, like no matter what area of life it is from getting to bed early, waking up early, staying up late, you know, depending morning or night person, depending on where you fall to the eating healthy, to moving your body, to drinking your water, to, you know, mindset work, like all of it takes time. You didn't become this person overnight, so don't think you're going to unbecome or become the new version of yourself overnight. Everything is a process.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (56:16)

Everything is a process. It is. And I'm wondering if someone is looking to start a business and they've not even started that process yet. What would you say for someone who either wants to do something, but they might not know what they want to do, just something independent. And what would you say to someone who has an idea, but they need that little next step?

Coach Lee (56:46)

So I would say, if you're not really sure what to do, start first with what you like, what you enjoy, because I'm sure we both know that business is not always fun. But when you get reminded of your why or why you're doing it, that gives you more oomph to wanna push through those hard times. So start with something that you actually like, love, or enjoy in some way, and then...

let that kind of guide you. Because oftentimes when you're like, I don't know, like I want to start a business, but I don't know what I'm good at. Ask your friends. If you, I'm pretty sure if you ask five to 10 friends, they likely are going to all say, if not the same thing, some version of the same thing. Like, Hey, what do think I'm good at? And then maybe you will see that ⁓ I can start a business with that. But even when you have the idea and you're not really sure where to start, we talked about AI earlier, ask Chattie, Hey, I want to start a business doing this.

I'm not really sure where to start. Can you help me? Google, like before we had, I mean, I guess theoretically Google is AI, but before we had like, you know, chat GPT and all of that, we had Google. Just ask Google. Start small, like we don't have, don't start with the brick and mortar. Start with the online space. Start with posting on social media and saying, hey guys, I wanna, if it's crafting, hey, anybody want, you know, to get their tennis shoe shoelaces?

Custom-made. don't know. I just threw out something random and just see what people say

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (58:12)

Totally agree. Asking friends or asking Google or I like how you call it chatty. That's really cool. Actually, this podcast started because there was one post on threads and a whole bunch of people responded to it. And so I didn't expect that. And you saw people kept telling you, should coach, should guide people. And so

The people around you guided you to what you should be doing. So your advice is don't just look within, you can look externally to see some signs, some signposts for where you should be going.

Coach Lee (58:49)

Yes.

100%. Start first with yourself and if you don't want to start with yourself because you're not really sure, start with those that are closest to you. And honestly, sometimes you might start with those people who aren't that close to you, who maybe only have encountered you, you know, in limited situations. They might concede too.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (59:12)

People can see it.

Coach Lee (59:14)

Yes.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (59:15)

People can see it. I like to wind up the conversations with three tips because I just like that number. And I'm really keen to ask you if there are three things that everybody should know to make their personal and professional lives feel more purpose-driven, what would it be?

Coach Lee (59:39)

Get it out of your head and onto paper, make a to-do list and start. A brain dump is getting it out of your head on the paper so you stop thinking about all the things you wanna do. Once you have that list, turn it into a list of like, what is it that I wanna get done today, this week, this month, and just start. Pick one thing.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (1:00:01)

Brain dump and start.

Coach Lee (1:00:04)

Brain dump to-do list start.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (1:00:06)

Brain dump to-do list start. I'll make sure those dot points get out there. Brain dump to-do list start. Coach Lee, thank you for teaching us so much.

Coach Lee (1:00:17)

Thank you for having me.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (1:00:20)

It's been wonderful.