Podcast Episode: Leanne Hutchinson — Single Parent Coach, Life After Plus One

Transcript

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (00:00)

Leanne, welcome to the podcast. It's great to have you here.

Leanne Hutchinson (00:04)

Thank you for having me.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (00:06)

I'd like to firstly invite you to share with people what exactly you do before we're going to explore how you ended up where you are and doing what you do.

Leanne Hutchinson (00:18)

So I'm a single-parent coach. I work with single parents, both mums and dads that are going through their breakup. A lot of them are in that phase where they're transitioning from going into their breakup. They're just becoming a single parent for the first time, just learning to adjust with those emotions and learning to get through that breakup. There's also other parents I work with that are further along that are looking into blending families, they're repartnered back in the dating world, and they're just trying to get out of that dating cycle that they just keep getting caught up in that gets them nowhere. So mainly working with single parents and helping them to handle their life in a better way, that's more beneficial for them.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (00:59)

Wonderful. So what led you to do this, and what led you to become a single parent as well?

Leanne Hutchinson (01:07)

Well, I have a background in coaching and counselling, but when I broke up with my daughter's father, gosh, about 12 years ago, it was very high conflict, very toxic. I walked out with nothing but my daughter and a suitcase of clothes. And where I'm living, I had no other family around me at the time. And I'm just...

I was alone, very much alone. And what made it even harder was when I was going through that, my friends conveniently believed his version of the breakup. So I also lost my friends through that. So that was really adding salt to the wound. And I remember saying that when I get through this, I wanna come out and do what I can to grow as a person so I can give back.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (01:46)

Yeah.

Leanne Hutchinson (01:58)

And I also remember that when I was going through it, I saw a therapist, and even though she was lovely, she was great. I just felt like I didn't have that connection because she'd never been through that herself. You know, she was able to still give support and advice, but I feel like you can connect a lot more with someone who's actually been through what you've been through. And that's why I'm so passionate about what I do.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (02:22)

I completely agree that you can't really imagine the reality, the day-to-day reality of that sort of situation, unless you have lived in it, because there are the small details and also the reality at 2 am or

Leanne Hutchinson (02:37)

100%.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (02:47)

Dinner time is totally different than the glimpse that someone might get of a situation when chatting with someone in the middle of the day about a situation.

Leanne Hutchinson (02:55)

Yep. Yeah, it's, it's very different just being in and, you know, like you can put a question out to someone on Facebook and say, Hey, what should I do in this situation? But quite often, they're going to respond from their breakup story. They're not giving you support. They're saying this is what I went through. So you should do this. It's not always the best advice. So with my line of work, there's no judgment. There's no, your ex is an asshole, this has happened, it's okay, let's look at what's happened. How can we make this better for you? It's very neutral, neutral playing field here, no judgment, just let's make this better for you.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (03:35)

Right, right. You mentioned counselling. Is that what you worked in before becoming a coach?

Leanne Hutchinson (03:40)

Well, I started doing a degree in counselling, a bachelor's degree, but I was going, I was doing that when I broke up with my daughter's father. And just due to single-parent life and everything like that, I got three-quarters of the way through and didn't finish. So I have completed all the counselling components and done all the main parts of it, but there's just a small portion. And it's one of those things you just keep, I'll go back to it, I'll go back to it, but it's.

You know, so that's why I don't call myself a counsellor. I've done the counselling modules and what's needed, but I have done the coaching work.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (04:15)

It's amazing that you did find a way to support people before completing years of formal steps. The breakup. I'm wondering if you agree that especially post COVID, it seems like there's such a trend for breakups, especially in recent years.

Leanne Hutchinson (04:39)

I do feel like it is becoming way too, I don't know if I would say easy. I feel like people are giving up too easily. And I don't know if that's got to do with social media. I think that would probably have a huge part in it. And that's possibly relates to the comment that I just said when people go on Facebook and give an opinion and everyone's like, no, leave them, get out. You shouldn't stay, red flag and all these things. It's like, but hold on.

You don't know the whole story, you're only hearing a small little snippet. They may still be able to make that relationship work. I feel like there's, I mean, I could be wrong. I'm not here to comment on everyone, but from what I see, I feel like a lot of people are giving up way too easy and not doing everything they can to make the relationship work.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (05:28)

Yes. Do you think everything has been a red flag these days?

Leanne Hutchinson (05:33)

I think that gets way overused. I think people are labelling things. And I talk about this a bit on my podcast as well. People are putting way too much focus on labelling things without actually looking at, okay, what is going on? It's like the word narcissist. If you're a narcissist, you're a narcissist. It's like, hold on. They may have said something you don't like. It doesn't mean they're a narcissist. So I think there needs to be more focus on what the actual problem is, and let's focus on, let's give this a label.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (06:05)

Yes, I agree with that for relationships and also for individuals. I live a bit north of you where the disability industry is almost religious. And whether it's that or the culture of calling everybody a narcissist, I'm not saying that nobody has a disability. I'm not saying nobody is a narcissist, but suddenly the moment, the moment that anything feels a bit

Leanne Hutchinson (06:19)

Yeah.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (06:35)

unusual. How many labels can we put on this?

Leanne Hutchinson (06:39)

Do you know what I feel like that stems from? And again, I can't comment on everything, but for me, I feel like people are using that as their identity. And quite often I see like, cause when I left my daughter's father, that was a DV relationship. And I have spoken that about, I have spoken a bit about that on my podcast, but I don't like to dwell on that because it's not my identity. I've spoken about where I am today and what got me to here, but I'm not going to sit there and say I'm a DV survivor.

And I see it a lot on social media. I'm a single mum, I left a DB relationship five years ago. It's like, I'm really sorry you went through that, but it's not who you are now. You don't need to make that the story of your life. It's hard as horrible as it is to go through that situation. And again, I don't want to disrespect anyone going through that. And I really don't, and I hope that hasn't come out in a bad way, but.

There's way too much emphasis on putting a title as someone's identity instead of, okay, I've been through that. It was a horrible situation. How can I make this better?

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (07:47)

I think what you're doing is empowering people and not shaming them because we're not discrediting the experience that people went through, and some great people in this world have gone through all sorts of things. lived through a lot as a young person. So things happen, but it's the I am a, and I can identify with what you're saying so much because in my

Leanne Hutchinson (07:51)

100 %

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (08:14)

very, very early adulthood days. There were moments when I was just a student in jeans and that's all I wanted to see myself as these days. Someone of a similar age would be making millions from TikTok. I don't understand it, but they do. And there were moments when I saw myself as a volunteer and I could not break that or a marketing worker. It's like people wanted to box me in as your writer, your this, your that. And with the single mom,

I think that the single mom label can box people in. I don't know if it boxes women into the suburbs or into extra limitations, people assuming you have less time, but do you think that any of these labels, any of the IMA, do you think it is just holding people back into a past identity instead of empowering people to redefine themselves and say, this is who I am now?

Leanne Hutchinson (09:13)

100%. 100 % and I feel like, yeah, it's holding people back. It's kind, it's like that whole victimhood mentality. This is me. I can't change because I've been through this. I'm a single mom. I can't better my life. And you know that that stigma, no matter who you are, what genre or walk of life you come from, there is going to be judgment for everyone. Even if you're wealthy, there's judgment. Oh, look at those people. They think they know better. There's judgment for every single walk of life. It's whether or not you choose to listen to that noise. It's whether or not you choose to make that your identity. Well, I'm a single mum, I must have failed. And I see a lot with my line of work, what I do, I see men all the time have a go at me, saying, You must have failed. You obviously didn't try hard enough to make the relationship work. And I sometimes think, well, buddy, first of all, I work with men here too. So I'm not a hit of gender bash anyone. Second of all, you don't know anything about my situation. So how can you even make that assumption? So I don't engage in those comments. For me, that just tells me more about them than it does anything else. And I just leave it be. it really, those judgments just come down to, are you going to believe it? Are you going to let that consume your thoughts? Or are you going to shut it out and say, no, I'm better than that. That's not me at all.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (10:39)

The, am I going to believe it, tells me that you are one of a few guests this week, emphasising that the truth is relative. It's, we all know it deep down, but people with particular roles at different times decide that their truth is gospel, and we need to question things more. Otherwise, there are so many opinions in the world that we would end up absorbed by so many conflicting opinions, and it would completely rule our lives if we didn't question it.

Leanne Hutchinson (11:14)

And I think a lot of people struggle with that. And again, I don't know if that's something to do with social media, but people struggle with other people having a different opinions. Like we're all not going to agree. And take for an example, yesterday, this won't be yesterday as this goes to air, but yesterday here in our time, it was Melbourne Cup. And there was, as you know, when it comes to Melbourne Cup time, there's a lot of controversial posts coming out about Melbourne Cup.

So I purely got on and questioned something, not agreeing or disagreeing. I made a neutral comment just making, asking why don't, why these questions only come out of Melbourne Cup? Why are they not? Why is this not put out there all the time? And I had so many negative comments directed at me, like, ⁓ you're this, you're that, you're this. And I even had someone come onto my page and say, How could you book with her? She doesn't even want to get into a debate over horse racing. And I'm like,

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (11:51)

curious.

Leanne Hutchinson (12:12)

I wasn't even getting into a bait. I merely just asked a question to the person that posted it. Curious to know why this isn't something that's put out there all the time. It's only put out one day a year. And that's the thing that people just think that you've got a different opinion. So let's attack them. Let's bring them down anyway we can.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (12:33)

Yes. Okay. My personal subjective response to that, the activism is that, gosh, I've seen a few angles. the commenting on something at a particular time of the year, most activist groups are stretched and relying on volunteers and balancing that with the rest of their lives. And I've seen time and time again, they feel strongly about something, but either

They only have the attention to focus on it at a particular time, but also, it's the classic marketing mentality of, this is this day, be it Mother's Day, whatever. And that's when people want to chime into the relevant conversation of the moment. And I think that's relevant to all of this as well, because let's face it every so often in the media or social media, there'll be…

Why don't you be more inclusive on Mother's Day or Father's Day? What about this group? What about that group? And I reached the point where some people were, I'll just say this. There was some people who were trying to downplay my realities of, well, the categories that are not the categories, but the experiences because they identify as a woman and me living my life meant that it looked like I was trying to look like more of a woman than the people who are suddenly or more newly identifying as a woman. And I felt like I'm not making a statement about someone else. I'm just doing my thing. So it sounds like what you've really drawn upon here is the very widespread dialogue that's around the world, where everything has to be a controversy.

Leanne Hutchinson (14:12)

Yeah.

Yeah, and that's a thing. The person I commented on was a media outlet. It was an Australian media outlet. And I was legitimately curious to know, but then I did get the answer. Someone did comment and say, It's because there's more awareness, and it spreads more attention. I'm like, okay, yeah, that does make sense. So I kind of got the answer I wanted, but I wasn't expecting all the tacks to go, you're this, you're that, you're angry.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (14:27)

And everything is a controversy.

Leanne Hutchinson (14:55)

I'm asking a question, and then to wake up the next morning and have someone comment on one of my posts on my business page. Don't book with her. She can't get even she can't even get into a debate over horse racing. I don't want to get in the debate. It's, but that's just it. Everyone's got to be right. No, you don't. You can respect someone that has a different opinion.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (15:16)

Yes. And frankly, I see both sides, and it's great that you are asking that question because I think what does come out of that question you asked is we do sometimes only show concern about some groups at a specific time of the year. R U OK Day is the classic example. And I think it has been coming up on the podcast once or twice before, where some people are really concerned, are people really okay? And then we're only talking about it once in the year. And I think that can really come up. People who are to come back to the single parent topic that you focus on, people can end up feeling depressed, feeling helpless, all sorts of things when they are having these life transitions. But then I think that it's very hard to maintain continuity of connection with support for all sorts of reasons, be it the, are you okay day novelty, which it's a great campaign, but it's very momentary. Meanwhile, with any sort of support or help, it can sometimes become quite momentary, or people just drift. Do you see that happening?

Leanne Hutchinson (16:15)

Mm.

Well, depending on what kind of support you're talking about, like if it's a big kind of organisational support, then yeah, I feel like that's kind of, that's now coming from more of a media plug and how is it going to benefit us financially as opposed to what help can we give you? How can we help you? But yeah, coming from a big organisational point of view, I think it's lost that personalisation.

But when it comes to support like what I do, my intent is to kind of be there as much as I can through their journey, so I can help them. I love seeing my clients in their sessions just grow from, I've had many on their first session where they're in tears and they're breaking down. Weeks down the track, they're smiling and laughing. I'm like, I love this. I love this. And that's the whole point. It's not my job to fix someone. I can't fix anyone. You can only fix yourself, but you can choose to listen to the advice and choose to take it on and choose to see things from a different angle. Your life can be a lot easier and happier.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (17:34)

Yes. I would encourage anyone to find someone who is offering to be there through the journey, because even if you talk with someone for an hour, you can do that repeatedly. I was talking with a GP in a recent recording, and the assumption in that industry is six minutes, six minutes to help someone. So it doesn't matter what the billing time says, anything like that. The assumption is they can basically go up to the next billing category when it's six minutes instead of five.

Leanne Hutchinson (18:10)

And let's be honest, that support is not personalised. That support is okay. What do you need so we can write your script, and we can get some commission from that?

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (18:19)

Precisely. That's actually, I'm not sure about the commission side. I did hear, and we won't recap that one. People go and listen to that one, but there's cheaper, more accessible professional development that sessions run by pharmaceutical brands. That's how that all works. But they only have time to see, okay, what are these symptoms? a thing, write a script. Absolutely. So.

Leanne Hutchinson (18:42)

X amount.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (18:48)

So that's going on with the GP, but I've really seen, I've learned the hard way that personally and professionally, we need to find people who can be around beyond those quick fixes because, because of course, sometimes you will need to go to a doctor or, know, you need those quick helps go to the emergency department, whatever, but

Beyond that initial one, that's a great example as well. You know, someone reaches rock bottom, they go to the emergency department, and seriously, often the trend is for someone to just be out and on their way, and no one follows up with them ever again. You need someone who's on the journey with you to really go from your rock bottom to the next step to becoming the person that you want to be. Is that what you aim for?

Leanne Hutchinson (19:36)

Yep.

Yeah, exactly. And that's what I try and do with my line of work. Like, I have that weekly podcast. So it's, even though that's not directed at someone personally, it's that extra bit of that hit of support that they can get without having to book a session. And those that I do see frequently, I do have a lot of them that check in via, like they might DM me through Instagram or through email, and they will just - something's happened and they need to check in and I'm happy. Don't say, No, sorry, you haven't booked a session. That's what I'm here for. I'm here to check in and offer that support. That's my job as your coach to help you. You got a message, you're stuck on something, message me, and I'm here for you. And that's because, sorry to cut you off there, because there's someone there that's been there and just felt so alone. I wanna know that.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (20:20)

Thank

Yes.

Leanne Hutchinson (20:27)

I don't want them to be alone. I don't want them to feel stuck. I'm here to help you. I want you to get through this messy period.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (20:35)

You are there for people. And I'm so curious. We're talking about not being alone. And you were on the central coast when you had your split. I've seen the central coast. It's a lot more quiet than places like Sydney. And anyone could be listening to this recording who could be going through something in a place where they are not surrounded by people and surrounded by anyone to turn to. So I'm wondering what was that feeling for you and how did you grow to find your next people?

Leanne Hutchinson (21:11)

It was very lonely without a doubt, and like losing your friends, and my daughter wasn't even in school yet. She was that young, and so it was just that I ended up having to put her in daycare because I thought, you know, I was just an emotional mess. So that was her break from me by putting her in daycare so to speak and you know I didn't really start making friends until she went to school, but still like I'm at a place now where, and I was actually just saying to this to someone yesterday, I know a lot of people, but my friend group is very, very tiny. And I'm okay with that. I'm very fussy with who I let in because I think that's part of when you've been hurt in the past, you are very cautious. But then also it's on the flip side of that. I don't want to let people in that are just going to drain my energy either. you know, and eventually

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (22:03)

Thank

Leanne Hutchinson (22:10)

to meet new people, this is another thing I kind of work on as well. It comes down to being more confident in yourself and putting yourself out there. I see it a lot with single parents. I've got no friends, I've got no one else. Are you doing anything to make new friends, or are you just hoping that they're gonna knock on your door? Because, yep.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (22:26)

I'd love to comment on that.

Join groups. Join groups because that's a crucial step, and we are connecting in a podcast. We've connected remotely, but although that's a great first step and there'll be, there'll be online gatherings, and that's a starting point, but would you agree finding people locally, anywhere, frankly, there are even some groups where you don't have to totally believe what they believe, but if they are

Human beings who are trying to look after their fellow human beings, whatever they are into, do you agree? Just find anyone nearby.

Leanne Hutchinson (23:03)

100 %

And the thing is, and this is again, I'm gonna mention it, social media. This is the positive of social media. It does have its positives, and there are groups, but everything these days, everything, and they're like this dog walking groups. There are elderly walking groups. There's there's groups for everything, like dancing, and I know there's social groups, as dating groups as… Join a group. Join a hobby, join an art class. And there's so many things that I want to do, but I just sometimes my role as a business owner and a mum, it just doesn't allow me to do everything that I want to do. But I'm also at a place where if my daughter's not with me, she's at a dad's, I'm not sitting here lost and going, no, I'm on my own. What am I going to do? She was at a friend's all weekend for a birthday, and she was out for trick-or-treating. And so I didn't spend much time with her, but I filled it up with things for me. And I went out and did things. I went out and had Reiki and did all this nice stuff for me. That's what it's about. You can get out and make friends, but not everyone is going to make the right friends. But it's also about getting out there and doing things that you enjoy. And that's how you can also make friends by doing the things that you enjoy because you're going to meet like-minded people that doing something that you that you also like, whether that's the gym, whether that's an art class, whether that's

Anything. A hobby.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (24:30)

Anything.

If you even go to a group where you're not chatting and making conversation the whole time, like the gym, yoga, anything like that. I found in my personal experience following yoga that eventually people would say, I've seen you here and it becomes familiar faces. That's a good step. And then you can, if people want to chat when they have a moment, they ask for that, then that's an extra bonus for sure.

Leanne Hutchinson (24:51)

Yeah.

Yep.

Yeah. And just even like going out for coffee. I've just started going to a new coffee place because I love their coffee, and they've now won my business. But now every day I walk in there like morning Leanne, and it that's nice. And that just feels welcoming in itself. And then the owner comes over and sits down and has a chat with me, every now and then, it's like, you know, you're not my best friend, but it's nice. It just makes you feel like you've made a friend. And that's what it's all about. Just getting out there and saying hi to people and slowly getting out of your comfort zone. That's what it comes down to.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (25:31)

Coffee is a great example, and coffee is almost everywhere, and unless someone is really not into caffeine, and oh yes, if you need something that's not caffeinated, fine. But the coffee places, I know someone who does some of the best coffee in the area quite seriously. I'll let you know afterwards. So I'm not just plugging that place every few episodes, but I was going to that place before I really got to know the people who run it.

Leanne Hutchinson (25:35)

Yes! Yes!

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (26:00)

And it was like a little sanctuary. I could sit there and I know this is a safe space. And I just felt calm in that space. And what I learned then, chatting with those people more, I eventually realised that for those who have the time to make coffee, to make coffee for people, and they enjoy it. Some of them not all, but some actually like the conversation and

Leanne Hutchinson (26:12)

Yeah.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (26:30)

They'll get conversations with people from all walks of life because we all need that pick-me-up, that energy. So you can, in the right situations, in the right spaces, you can make a bit of conversation with people. So that's it. That's a great example that you used, but I do want to take it a step further and say, I'm wondering if you. Pursued professional development as a way to feel.

Leanne Hutchinson (26:42)

100%. Yep. Yep.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (26:59)

Like you were growing and thriving after your split, you made great steps to become a coach, and you would have connected with people who helped you in that journey.

Leanne Hutchinson (27:12)

Well, prior to this business, what I'm doing now with Life After Plus One, I also had another business. And when I was in that, again, single mom, solo business owner, so was on my own. So I got out and did a lot of networking events. And that's how I met a lot of local business owners. So I made a very good network of friends and that's another great way, and people just think you're a solo business owner I can't I don't have employees get out of network go to networking events there's so many around these days but when you're saying development are you saying like what what did I do for myself is that what else you mean or

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (27:53)

whether it's connecting with course providers or whether it's learning something independently or connecting, think networking is amazing. And I'll comment on that, but any of the above anything.

Leanne Hutchinson (28:02)

Yeah.

So for me also, another part that I don't really speak out on a lot because it's for me, it's in my past. I don't dwell on that past for too much, but in 06, I was actually married to someone, were together for 12 years, but we only married for 18 months, didn't last, were high school loves and it was just, anyway, cut a long story short, when we broke up in 2006, that's when I got into a lot of things like Wayne's Wire.

Deepak Chopra, podcasts weren't really a thing then, but I was listening to Oprah on CDs and all that kind of thing. So that's where, for me, that all started. All those books and all that. I was always big on that. And then as time went on, I was getting more and more into it. And each time I learnt that when I was dating people throughout the years, I learned to actually step back and go, okay, what can I take away from this? And that's the biggest thing. And that's one thing I really, really talk about a lot with my line of work. You're not going through this period because the universe is telling you you're an asshole. You're going through this because it's the summit key you need to learn. And that's the biggest thing I took away from whether it be a breakup or a shitty situation I went through, or a period where I'm like, shit, I can't even afford dinner tonight. What do I do? Okay. What can I learn from this? And that's the biggest takeaway I've, I've kind of learned from any hardship I've been through as a single mom. There is always something that we can take away from that, no matter how rock bottom your life has been. There's, and that's how I've learned to grow and um, be stronger in myself. I don't look at it as in, oh shit, okay, I can't afford dinner. Oh well, I've moved in here and we've got to sleep on a blow-up mattress. It's no, okay, this happened. Now, let's do better. Let's grow from this. That's for me, the way I look at things. I need to keep going. I need to kind of do better than what I was, not just for me, but for my daughter.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (30:15)

Yes, the dating experience can show you what you don't want and who you want to become.

Leanne Hutchinson (30:20)

Yep. Yeah, there's so much you can learn. I think that's just it. People take it so personally. Oh, they didn't like me. It didn't work. They didn't call me. They didn't text me back. Okay, they weren't the one. There is billions of people in the world. Trust me, you'll find someone else. And I see that a lot in my line of work. I'm going to be single. No one's ever going to want me now. Why? Because one person didn't want you. Does that mean everybody else is not going to want you? It's just one situation. And that's that's the whole thing. It's about just step back and look at it from, take your blinkers off and have a look, okay, what's happening here and what can I take away from this?

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (30:57)

Yes, absolutely. The dating experience is so much more complex for sure when you are a single parent or even when you're in a different stage of life. What really shocked me, and I'm so curious about your perspective on this, the apps. So before I started getting out there a few years ago,

I would say that, I'd say that a decade ago is just meeting people in community groups. And I had no idea what the apps were like. And I'm wondering if you meet people or with your own experience where the apps, there is something people need to learn to avoid the hard way, or what's your take on all that.

Leanne Hutchinson (31:46)

You know what, I'm not gonna lie, I've got a profile there, but I'm not active. Because for me personally, I'm okay being single, I have no problems, I'm not trying to rush the process. I'm a big believer in the right person's gonna come at the right time. So I'm not trying to force anything, I'm not trying to rush anything. But for me, I can't do surface-based conversation. I can't do the whole texting. How was your day?

What'd you get up to? It's like, you're not really getting to know me. I can't do this. I can't engage. And so I quickly get, I get lost in a very, well, I just lose interest very quickly. Cause I'm like, this is, I can't, I can't do this. So part of me is like, do I want to try and really give it a go? Or do I want to just step back and just focus on meeting someone organically? Because that's what I want. I want someone that sees me for who I am. This is me. This is what you get.

like me or hate me, you know, sort of thing. I think also at the end of the day, it's very important to remember, especially as you're older as a single parent and you've been through a lot more, you're carrying a lot more emotional baggage, you're dealing with hundreds, if not thousands, of other people that are also carrying all this emotional baggage. So it's like one big, one big place with all these wounded, hurt people trying to find someone that's gonna make them happier. And that's the problem. So many people are just looking for someone to make them happy. You need to make yourself happy first. Focus on making yourself happy, not focusing on someone to make you happy. And again, this is something I speak a lot on my podcast. Like people go into dating, not knowing what they want. They just know, I want a partner. So let's just hope for the best. And then they go through this same toxic dating cycle where they keep breaking up the same way because you're doing the same thing. You have a different person, but you're going into these different relationships doing the exact same things. Nothing's changing. And that's the whole idea. And that is why, and what I gain, what I talk about a lot, why it's so important to let go of this emotional baggage, to let go of this hurt, because you're unconsciously taking it into all these new relationships. You're going in guarded. You're going in not trusting. You're not opening up fully. So you're not being authentic. They're not seeing the true you because you're scared to open up. You might be comparing them to your exes, all these different little things that come into play. And it's not necessarily that the apps are bad, it's the people on them that are carrying all this and using it to judge all these people that they're talking to.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (34:27)

Do you think some of them are treating the app space or the whole scene like a band-aid?

Leanne Hutchinson (34:36)

100%, 100%. I see quite often, and I've seen some posts on Facebook and I've seen people talk to me about this saying, like there's people that have come to me, they're not even broken up yet. And they're they're focused on, I don't think I'm gonna find someone else. And I'm like, let me just stop you right there. That is not your focus right now. First of all, you will find someone else, but second of all, your focus needs to be getting through this breakup.

Will or will someone date me? You know what I was trying to say. But yes, and I saw something a couple of months ago, someone posted in this group on Facebook. It was like a 20-year relationship. And she's like, I don't want to wait 12 months or however long it is until the divorce is finalised, so I start dating again. I want to start dating now. What should I do? And I'm thinking, you've just come out of a 20-year relationship and you can't wait till your divorce is finalised to start dating. You need to do it now.

That's telling me she's not dating because she wants to find someone. She's dating because she doesn't; she's scared to be on her own. She's scared to do life on her own. She's scared to deal with everything. And that's quite often you see these rebound relationships. They're the people that are not dealing with anything. Let's just use this to fix me. Let's just use this to make me feel better. Let's just use this to show that, see, there's nothing wrong with me. I'm fine. This person likes me. It is a massive band-aid for a lot of people.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (36:03)

It can even be an ego boost, but yeah, I've seen both angles to it because sometimes I met people that were so amazing. thought, Wow, why is this person even talking to me? And that says plenty about my insecurity. But then those people ended up showing me, okay, what do I need to become? And I hope that more people can ask themselves, okay, what do I need to become instead of just who do I need to find? Do you think so?

Leanne Hutchinson (36:05)

100 %! Yep.

Yeah, and I think a lot of people, I think a lot of people putting their focus on, okay, this person's talking to me. I'm seeing a lot of red flags. I'm not sure, but they seem okay, so it must be all right. They just keep lowering their standards, and they're selling in relationships that they know are not healthy because they just think this must be the person because they got some sort of okay banter going, they've got some sort of okay conversation going. But there's so much more to building a relationship than having an okay conversation.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (37:11)

Comment on the banter part. I think part of the problem, you identified it earlier on the apps, you're lucky to get more than how was your weekend. The moment someone can hold a conversation, it feels like a miracle.

Leanne Hutchinson (37:23)

Yeah, well that's true too and I think that's when people think well this must be the one, this must be the person and then they meet up in real life it's like ⁓ I don't like this, all these red flags are happening or they don't have this or they can't do this and you know realistically it's not the kind of person that you're wanting but you've got a good conversation so it must be right, it must be okay so people overlook all these things they convince themselves must be the right person but instead of just going

They're a nice person, but they're not my type. It is okay to do that. And I think we need to normalise that more often. You can have a nice conversation with someone, but it doesn't mean they're going to be your perfect match.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (38:04)

Yes. And I'm curious if you recommend to meet earlier instead of just chatting online for a week or months without actually testing that out.

Leanne Hutchinson (38:16)

Yeah, I think that comes down to personal preference, and also when you're single-parenting, that comes down to time a lot as well. I know that's a big issue working out when you got a free weekend and stuff like that. So that's, you know, that is, it's all preference and how well you've spoken. For me I'm a big believer in having a good phone conversation. I personally will not meet anybody unless we've spoken on the phone. And I've actually chatted to people not recently, but a while ago. And he said to me, well, I won't meet somebody. No, I won't speak to somebody on the phone until we've actually met up in person. And I said, well, sorry, I do it the other way around. I want to speak to you on the phone first to make sure you're genuine, make sure we can hold up a good conversation before I actually meet you.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (39:02)

Do you know why that person does it the opposite way?

Leanne Hutchinson (39:04)

No, that died off pretty quickly. But no, I thought that was very interesting. But you do see it a lot. People are just not confident to speak on the phone. People don't feel comfortable to do it. And so they just avoid it. People are happy just to do the endless back-and-forth messaging. But for me, again, I find that surf space, you're not actually getting to know someone because when you're doing the constant back and forth messaging, it's all just the, was your day? What'd you get up to? What are you doing this weekend? Yeah, cut and paste, whatever.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (39:31)

praises.

Leanne Hutchinson (39:35)

Let's see how that lands. And you're not getting to know someone. I don't think, one of the biggest things I always talk about is there's no rush. You don't have to rush anything. If you're just meeting someone or start chatting with someone, or the sun's going good, or let's meet up tomorrow night, you don't have to rush anything. There's no time limit. Just because we're older or we're single parents doesn't mean you've got to handle the dating world much quicker.

I think it's actually smarter to do it a lot slower, so you actually know for sure what you're getting into because you've got more to lose.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (40:09)

Run it.

Right, because you have a family, because you're more than yourself.

Leanne Hutchinson (40:14)

You've got your kid, don't want to have to date someone and drag this person into your world, and then introduce them to your kid, and all of a sudden, you might move in together, and you're like, oh, this isn't what I wanted. Let's break up again. Then you got to move. Your kids are being impacted again. It's like you've already been to a big breakup, whether it's your divorce or defacto breakdown, relationship breakdown. That in itself is a huge deal. You don't want to have to go through something like that again, unless you don't have to. Now I'm not saying that you can completely avoid going through a breakup. That's just impossible. No one can avoid that. But you can be a lot more cautious and a lot more careful the way you approach it when you're not rushing things, when you're going in there with realistic expectations. And because when you're still caught up from the breakup and you're going into the dating world, that's when you take it so personally. Why'd they leave? And you give those people trying to force them to come back or start texting them all the time, and going past their house and stalking them. It's like, what are you doing? Because it happens, these things happen a lot. Because if they were comfortable in themselves and they were confident in where they're at in life, they wouldn't feel the need to chase anybody. And that again, all comes down to the same thing about letting go of all these emotions and that hurt and that anger from the breakup.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (41:15)

Gosh.

Leanne Hutchinson (41:34)

before you go into the dating world because even you're carrying all this, especially as a single parent, you're carrying all that hurt from that your ex-husband or your ex-wife or whoever else and you're going into the dating world, you're taking all that with you and quite often you're going to dump it onto this new person without even realizing.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (41:50)

Do you see people sometimes even holding onto the baggage of the dating experiences after a long-term relationship?

Leanne Hutchinson (41:59)

100

% and you see it often like that first relationship breakup after a divorce is always one of the hardest and people don't understand why and you see it all the time because when you've come out of a divorce or break up with your kids other parent and all of a sudden someone starts giving you attention you're like wow this is what I never got this is what I was needing when I was married this is what I'm after yes hallelujah and then all of a sudden

Two or three months down the track, and it's over, and you're like, what just happened? Because you overlooked everything else. There's all these red flags that were happening, but you overlooked because you just saw that they were giving you some attention that you needed. They were giving you what you needed at the time. They weren't your perfect match. They weren't your ideal partner. They were giving you that attention that you're craving that you never got in that relationship with your ex-husband or your ex-wife or whoever else it was. And all of a sudden, you're getting it.

Yes, this is it. So that's why you feel so much, you feel, you get so more let down and so more, you feel much more, that's not the right way to phrase it. You feel hurt so much more because you had so much, your expectations of this was so high. You've gone in thinking, yes, this is the person. This is what I didn't get in my marriage or my relationship. I've now got it here. Then all of a sudden, boom, it's all died off.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (43:22)

wondering if you've seen people putting even more characteristics on a pedestal. It's partly the attention. I think also a lot of people come out of a long-term relationship thinking, why couldn't this person have been more ambitious like I am or, or whatever it might be or been more tidy. And frankly, that sounds small, but if things get really messy, whatever it might be, why couldn't they have, and then

You get out there and for days, weeks, or months, you see someone who ticks some of the boxes, even though there are red flags in other spaces. And it's like they are filling a gap because just like the process of getting on your feet and functioning as a single parent instead of a two-person parenting situation, just like that.

There's, do you think there's an element of this person is dragging me up back off the cliff I'm dangling down. I'm really concerned that maybe it seems like they're filling gaps, something like that.

Leanne Hutchinson (44:36)

I don’t know if enough people do look at it like that. But I feel like that's just it. They see a few good things about this person and they overlook everything else because there's a few good things. Yeah, and I think that's the problem. Everything is, all this other stuff gets overlooked because they're seeing a few good things. And I see it all the time. I've met this person, they're lovely, they're this and that, but they do this, this, this, this, and this.

I'm like, you just pointed out all these things you don't like. So why are you ignoring that for these few small good things? And the thing is, this is also a big problem when people go into relationships without actually properly getting to know somebody. This is why it's so important to get to know this person, know who they are. And this also relates to a podcast episode of mine that just came out yesterday, actually, on Blending Families and the importance of knowing where you both stand before actually moving in together.

You can't just say, this is going great, let's live together. You need to know that you're both on the same page. You need to know that you both have the same expectations with the future of your relationship, with how you are around your kids, with finances, with the housework, with everything. Because quite often you see it, everything's going well, the relationship is great. Next minute you're living together, oh, but they're not helping out with finances. Oh, but they're not helping out with the kids. Oh, but they're not helping out with this. But did you discuss it beforehand? Did you know what you were getting into?

Same thing with relationships. You can't just say, but they're not clean. But they're not helping with this. But then, did you know that beforehand? Did you make an effort to get to know them? Because you can't change someone. This is who they are. If you don't like who they are, then they're not your match.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (46:16)

You need to know before getting into something what's going to be involved. And it's the details. I, I want to make myself a headline by referencing the conservative that actually made some really good points of checking. Does someone have a default in their everyday life of an open home policy as in friends can pop over whenever they want. We are like seventh heaven. Anyone can.

Rock up, or is it a closed home of this is our sanctuary, our space. We are going to keep it quiet and enclosed. Don't bring people into that so much. Or what are you going to do for Christmas? There are, there are so many little details that people don't think of, but even, me know if you agree. has to be beyond the labels of.

I want a family or I do, I don't want children or anything like that because in my experience, someone basically assumed that having a family equals literally be in a quiet house away from everything in the suburbs and revolve around that and just don't do so much else. And it's, I think there's too much assumption there. So you have to ask, do you agree? It's about asking what's this going to look like?

Leanne Hutchinson (47:35)

You just nailed it on the head, then, with the word assumption. That's the problem. People assuming, we can't assume. You've got to actually ask the question. It's just like another thing that really, really bugs me when I see this all the time on Facebook. And I'm no doubt that you would have seen as well. When people get on there and say, My partner's doing this or this has happened. I don't know what to think, or I don't know what to do, or I don't speak to your partner. This is your partner. Why are you not asking them this question?

It just blows me away. It's like, my husband just said this or my wife did this. It's like, if that is your husband or wife, why are you asking Facebook and not them?

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (48:14)

Is that what you see a lot? People asking Facebook, asking you, asking anyone else because they don't want the direct conversation.

Leanne Hutchinson (48:21)

They don't have that communication

or I don't know how they're going to react or don't know how they're going to respond. Well, that's your partner. And the thing is, if they're not going to respond in a healthy way, then why are you with this person? Because realistically, you want a partner where you can talk to about anything. If you're having problems in the relationship, if you're unsure of anything, you need to be able to go to them and say, Hey, what's actually happening? I don't, I'm not sure, I'm feeling a loss, or I'm confused, or you need to be able to have that conversation with them.

And if you're not comfortable to talk to your own partner, then that's a massive red flag in your relationship.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (48:53)

going to ask that if you can't have the conversation, does that say plenty in itself?

Leanne Hutchinson (48:58)

100 % because no relationship is ever gonna last if there's no communication. Communication is necessary. Like that is the biggest thing to make any form of relationship work, even if it's a friendship or a work relationship, anything.

Because what you just said, assume, people assume way too much. Like what we said at the beginning with that post on Facebook yesterday and everything else. People jumped down my throat, assuming things about me. It was like, That's not what I asked. I asked a simple question. People are assuming, and when they're assuming, they're thinking worst-case scenario instead of actually going to the source of the problem, saying, Hey, I heard this or I saw this. Can you explain that or what's going on?

And if you're not confident to speak to your partner, then what's happening here? Why are you not comfortable to speak to your own partner?

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (49:45)

Yes.

And the assuming, let's go back to social media for a moment. I'm fascinated by how this has been coming up so much. I think that's a really big issue. Social media, it's, look, it does bring people together. We found each other on social media. I've stayed connected with some people from years ago, and they are amazing, and it's great to keep connected. But in terms of what we expect for our lives, for our relationships, for other things,

It seems like we both believe that people are expecting an ideal or an image or something that's not the reality of things. I had someone just a couple of months ago telling me, You're doing so great and you're so successful and sure, I'm not going to put the worst of everything on social media. Come on. So people just assume everything.

Leanne Hutchinson (50:46)

Yeah.

Yeah, I remember years ago, like I think when I first broke up with my daughter's father, my sister made a comment to me saying, Oh, but I thought you were fine because you didn't put anything other, you didn't put anything different on Facebook. I'm like, of course I didn't. I'm not gonna put up and say I was, up in tears this morning, and I was lying in a ball. Of course I'm not gonna put that on Facebook. But some people do, but like look at TikTok these days. People are doing that. People are taking.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (51:04)

Wow.

Leanne Hutchinson (51:19)

You know, you've taken that for advantage, but yeah.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (51:23)

they putting the worst of their day on TikTok?

Leanne Hutchinson (51:25)

I think it is becoming a trend where especially more so on TikTok where you're seeing people, know, videos of them crying of themselves and showing them at their lowest and stuff and what they've been through. like, you know, that's, I'm sorry you've been through that, and that's terrible and that's horrible. I'm glad you're educating people, but don't sit there and dwell on it. Let's, and this is one thing I see, and I see a lot of people in my line of work do this. They're, ⁓ this is how, like they're constantly dwelling on negative things that's happened. like,

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (51:36)

wow.

Leanne Hutchinson (51:54)

But that's just creating more gender hate. That's just creating more, see, this is why I went through that. This is why that happened. It's like, let's change the angle and make it more, okay, that's happened, but let's make you a stronger person so you don't go through that again.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (52:08)

And we both have personal brands that will project some sort of angle online. So it's worth advising whoever is listening, whether you have a commercial personal brand or you're just connecting with the internet in some way. It's about the what now. And I think that the world wants some sort of authenticity in this age of AI and filtered fakes, all of that.

We know that deep down, most of us know that social media feels so fake that we crave something real on social, but you don't have to; you don't have to give people every single second of your reality on social media. You really don't. And a publicist said on the show a while ago that your customers aren't paying you to show them your entire life. And even

I saw a really old video of Jessica Simpson and Nick from a million years ago. And they said that although the cameras for their reality show would arrive when they were waking up, they admitted on a talk show that Jessica Simpson would be not really one you'd want to talk to for an hour after waking up. So they would wait until she was ready. Or if they really were just feeling grumpy and needed a moment, they'd go to a movie. Point being,

Leanne Hutchinson (53:10)

Yep, it's shy. Yep.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (53:36)

even the most exposed people who share so much of themselves, there's always something you're not, there's always something that you're not seeing and we need to, we need to edit people, edit. Do you think so?

Leanne Hutchinson (53:41)

not authentic. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. I think that's just it. And again, going back to social media, it's made the world lose its authenticity. Like, take for example, I had someone just DM me, I think it was last night. Last night they DM’d me in the conversation. I cut the conversation off this morning, because they DMed me and I thought it was a potential client, someone interested in my work, because I commented on my post and started talking about it, wanting some advice. I'm like, okay, I gave them a voice message, gave them some support and help that they might have needed. And then after a few conversations, they're plugging their business onto me. And they're trying to say, Oh, would you want to get on and have a free chat there? So they're trying to sell a free chat to me, trying to get me on. I'm like, do you know what? I respect that you're selling your business, but I don't like the way you've approached this. Because I also said in the light and lead up to this, where it went is that you know, I'm very passionate about what I do. And I'm very passionate about the people that align with me, and know what I do and like what I do will come to me. And that was before I knew what he even did. And so for the way he just kind of approached me, like he was wanting to know about my work and wanting to know something about co-parenting, like it was a topic on co-parenting. So here I am thinking he's a single dad wanting some advice about his ex. And then he just twisted it, saying, I can get you more clients. I can get you this. Like, I don't like the way that landed. I mean, I respect that you're trying to get business, but this just goes back to my point of being authentic.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (55:04)

Was he not?

Leanne Hutchinson (55:15)

You know, and that's what I said to him. Don't, there was nothing authentic. I don't like the way you approach me. If you just come to me from a different angle, just being straight up honest and say, Hey, I can get you more clients. This is what I do. Would you be interested? I probably would have said no, but I would have been more respectful of the way he approached it. But just to come in at me and pretend like you're fake interested in what I do, talking about co-parenting, asking questions about it. So I'm giving him voice messages, thinking, okay, this guy needs some support. He needs some help.

No, no, he just wanted more business, and this is what I'm getting at. Just be authentic. Just be you.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (55:50)

Yes, yes. You need to, you need to be honest about your intentions with something. And I've been following a few amazing role models where I'm saying, look, I don't feel like now is the right time. Often some people interpret that as a no, some will understand it's really do follow and adore what you're doing, but pretty soon, at the right time, I'll get involved with this, but then there will be others who are

Leanne Hutchinson (55:56)

Yeah.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (56:20)

Just selling something, and do you think that people don't know how to sell sensibly these days, when everybody is selling something?

Leanne Hutchinson (56:27)

I think so. Like, that's probably the hardest part of running a business, really. You know, you can be so passionate about what you do, but it's the selling part can be the hardest, the approach. But I've always been someone that comes from an angle of I've never forced anything onto anyone. For me, all of my clients have come to me. I've because for me, I don't like it when people come and force things on me. So I'm not going to be someone that does that to somebody else. ⁓

But it is a tricky thing. Especially in this day and age, people want more bookings. You know, again, social media, you see all these constant people, six-figure months, all these kinds of things. And people are like, I'm doing something wrong. I should be getting more clients. I should be getting more. I should be doing this. I should be doing that. People are constantly comparing, sorry.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (57:12)

I can hear

the hype and the panic of how you're even vocalising that.

Leanne Hutchinson (57:21)

But see, it doesn't bother me. I'm happy to focus on me and my work and what I do, but you see it a lot. everything, there's so many business coaches and Instagram experts at six, that's what they're focused on. Get six-figure months. And so I feel like that has taken away the approach of when it comes to selling, people more like, let's just sell, sell, sell, sell, sell. It's like, how about you just focus on being real? Just focus on being you.

And I know it's hard because being you doesn't necessarily sell, but I also am a big believer that when you're being authentically you, you will find your right people.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (58:01)

You will need to project your value and what you provide in a way that shows people your real you, because I could very clearly see from the get-go. I think it was, so your brand is called, what's your brand name? Yes. Wanted to make sure I get to that. Right. Life after plus one. There's no confusion about what you're about. So that was, that was something that told people, okay,

Leanne Hutchinson (58:06)

Yeah.

who I have to plus one.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (58:31)

You clearly have life experience, and this is what you're about. But I think the grey area is when people have a presence online, but you wonder what they do? And some people approached me and they sort of seemed a bit keen to do something, but then it turned out to be your classic MLM with just random consumer products to wait for their own. That's not my thing.

Leanne Hutchinson (58:55)

Yep.

Yep.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (58:58)

So you need to just know what someone is about.

Leanne Hutchinson (59:01)

Yeah, yeah, definitely. But you know, like I just said, I don't like to force things. It's not what I do. And I'm also respectful of being a single parent. Finances is not your top priority. Well, it's not something that people can just go splashing money around on. So I'm totally respectful of that. I understand that. And that's the time where you do need to be more cautious of money. So I'm not gonna force myself on anyone because...

I know what it was like when I was a single parent. Like I said earlier, I was struggling to put food on the table. I just didn't know how I was going to make ends meet. So I can't say here you need my services, but don't worry about eating for the week. You know, so I've got to be realistic with my with my niche as well.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (59:42)

You understand your audience and their priorities, definitely.

Leanne Hutchinson (59:44)

Yeah. Yeah.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (59:49)

So overall, it looks like we've ended up identifying that whether it's dating or finding the next step after a split or even how we relate to anyone online, the common thread here is about being real about who we are now and who we are going to be.

Leanne Hutchinson (1:00:09)

Yeah, yeah, 100%. Don't let social media turn you into somebody else. Don't feel like you need to compete or compare. And this is the biggest thing that I always focus on in my work. Just focus on being better than who you were. And it was funny, I just dropped my daughter off at school, dropped her off this morning, and I'm driving home. like, I need to set some goals. I need to start setting some more goals. Because I'm very big on doing that. I can, done that, yep, done that. And it gives you something to look forward to. And when you're doing goal, when you're having goals and having something to tick off.

You know that you're actually achieving stuff, and you know that you're actually doing better than what you did last month or the month before, and that's the point. Focus on doing better than you. Focus on doing better than what you did last month or last year. Don't worry about what Jane's doing or what Tom's doing, or stop comparing yourself to anyone on social media. Just stay in your lane.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (1:01:01)

Stay in your lane. Stay in your lane for sure. And the one thing I like to do at the end of these conversations is always invite the opportunity for three nearly universal lessons or actions that people can take, because you're focusing on life after plus one, people are going to transition into any sort of next stage.

And that's always going to be shifting into an unknown, shifting into a brave step. I'm wondering what three things someone should be doing in their next chapter?

Leanne Hutchinson (1:01:36)

Three things that I would suggest to focus on, just off the top of my head quickly. Your confidence is a huge thing. And I say all the time, you can have two people doing the exact same things, but you can have someone up here and you can have someone down here because they've had the confidence to put themselves out more. Your confidence plays a huge role in every part of your life. So get your confidence back up, just learn to accept reality. know, hardships are not something, as I said earlier, to tell you that you're an idiot, you messed up. Hardships are just a lesson that you can learn from. So look at the lesson in what you've been through and use it to take you up to the next level. Third one, ⁓ goodness, confidence lesson.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (1:02:29)

Reality.

Leanne Hutchinson (1:02:32)

Just stay in your lane. Stay in lane. Focus on you, especially when you're co-parenting, because it's easy when you're co-parenting to get into arguments with your ex, fighting with them, trying to prove a point, wanting an apology, wanting an explanation, wanting them to see your point of view. It's never going to happen. Stay in your lane. Focus on you. Focus on how you show up as a mom or a dad, and focus on how you show up for your kids. That's it. Confidence. Stay in your lane.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (1:02:34)

In your lane, as in focus on you.

Leanne Hutchinson (1:03:03)

I can't remember what I said in the second one. Anyway.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (1:03:03)

and you.

Okay. It was to look and behave with confidence, and you're welcome to pop on another time to explore confidence as a whole thing in itself. I feel like that's crucial. confidence and stay. And the next one was reality. Accept your current situation or reality without staying in it. Learn from it without letting it reflect on you. Don't let it shame you, but just see this is what there is.

Leanne Hutchinson (1:03:27)

LONG LESSON

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (1:03:37)

And then the other one was to be in your lane and focus on you, and remember that you can change yourself more than you can change other people.

Leanne, thanks for the wisdom.

Leanne Hutchinson (1:03:50)

Thanks for having me.