Podcast Episode - Stories of Hope: Healing from Addiction, Trauma, and the Power of Community Connection with Kerrie Atherton

Transcript

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (00:01)

Kerry Atherton, welcome to the Motivate Collective podcast. It's great to have you on the show.

Kerrie Atherton (00:08)

Thank you, Melanie. It's great to be here.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (00:11)

For those who don't know, what exactly do you do?

Kerrie Atherton (00:16)

I actually wear a lot of hats, Melanie. I've been working in the addiction, mental health, and trauma space for around 20 years now. So I'm a coach, a counsellor, a speaker. I host community events called Stories of Hope Worldwide. And I've been doing that for eight years now so that people that are going through difficult times don't have to feel alone in their pain and that they've got tangible hope through the stories of other people that have come out the other side to hold on to. And I'm also an author, and I have my own podcast, which I launched last year, called Stories of Hope Inspiring Humans with Kerry Atherton.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (00:58)

Amazing. What did you write about in your book?

Kerrie Atherton (01:01)

So my books are actually a collection of stories of some of the most powerful, inspiring ⁓ stories of powerful people that I've interviewed, actually, or who have taken to the stage at my Stories of Hope events. I've tried to vary the stories as much as possible. And in the first two books, volume one and volume two, they are six stories of six men and six women in each book. And they're people that have just really been to the brink of darkness and despair, and they've come out the other side. And it's their stories of hope, of how they did that, and the tools and strategies. And then my third book, Lightbulb Moments Through the Eyes of Men, I started to formulate that book through COVID when our events were closed down and we couldn't meet together.

I started interviewing inspirational people who had stories of resilience, of overcoming lots of difficult things. And I wanted to share those interviews online at the time with people who just felt like, well, look, COVID struck, and they may not have been through other things, and they were wondering how they were going to get through COVID. So I'm like, well, let's put some power out there and some stories of people that have really come back from the brink and give everybody in the world hope.

that they can, if hope can happen for those people, it can happen for them too. And so then I also became very aware that our male suicide rate was really on the rise. And so I decided to make that book specifically for men and for men's mental health. And as an early intervention tool, also for guys to realise that they don't have to go to the bottom or wait for that light bulb moment, that they can pay attention to those small warning signs or make those changes if they're battling with addictions or whatever, early. So those 15 stories are from men from the age of 22 to 82 from all around the world who have been through all different kinds of situations. And then my last book is a mind management journal, and it's largely focusing on the aspects of cognitive behaviour therapy.

And the fact that it just doesn't take 21 days to change a thought or a belief, over 63 days, you can really strategically change how you think about things and the way that you move forward.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (03:43)

Amazing. What personal experience led you to get involved in all of this?

Kerrie Atherton (03:50)

Well, I've been through a lot of childhood trauma, and I was an alcoholic and addicted to pills from the age of 10. And so I got sober at 18. And at that point, at 18, my rock bottom was wanting to end my own life. And I had a kind of a divine intervention that day that stopped me from doing that. And I became very passionate about suicide prevention.

because I had been suicidal from 10 right through to 18.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (04:24)

And let's unpack that. How does that end up happening?

Kerrie Atherton (04:31)

I was extremely troubled. There was a lot of trauma in my life. I grew up with two alcoholic parents. They were very loving parents, I just felt very insecure and very... Things were very uncertain. And with the environment, with my mum, I just didn't know what was going to happen from one day to the next.

My dad was sober before I was born and so I never saw him drunk and my mum used to drink at night so I never actually saw my parents drunk but it was what was going on with my mum she had bipolar and was very very depressed and and I was the eldest of two brothers so I felt an immense responsibility also to look after my mum and I had three very traumatic events by the age of 10 and I was put on antidepressants and anti-anxiety medication and I became addicted to that medication and then I picked up alcohol for the first time at 15 and I was like an instant alcoholic. I couldn't stop at one drink. I ended up paralytic every time I did drink. turned 20. Paralytic is when you have no control over your emotions. You're almost paralysed.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (05:47)

Let's go.

Kerrie Atherton (05:55)

And I had blackouts, I would get blind drunk. I only ever set out to have one or two drinks and to just take that edge off life, to just feel, to just try and feel normal, to be able to have a conversation with people at a party, to just give me that little bit of confidence to escape from depression, escape from fear, escape from anxiety, escape from social anxiety. But

In an alcoholic's brain, there's a part that is different to a normal brain, and that switch that tells you when to stop drinking just doesn't work. So every time I set out to just have a couple of drinks, I would end up not being able to remember what had happened. And I would end up waking up on people's fences and in different people's houses and not knowing how I got there.

And the question I would always ask the next day, when I was going through the hangover, was, I only set out to have a couple of drinks. What happened?

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (07:04)

That's a big question. How does that happen? You just did you just think one more or did you, I'm curious, did you feel less impact after a drink and were you in that moment after a drink one or two thinking I'm fine, what difference does one more make? And did it then just go a step further?

Kerrie Atherton (07:28)

We see, I don't know what happened because that's the thing, that part, as I said, in the brain of an alcoholic, that logic switch that says, it stopped now, it just doesn't work, it's not there. And as much as I tried to just have a couple, I just crossed that line and never know how it ended up happening. And this was a pattern with my drinking, and I've been sober since I was 18, so many, many years, and I sit in AA meetings, I've heard thousands and thousands of stories, and they're all the same, that one drinks too many and a hundred's not enough. So abstinence is fine, but if you pick up that first drink, there's no guarantee what will happen once we pick up that first drink. Whereas a social drinker can just have one or two and know that they can, and there's no adverse consequences from that.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (08:27)

It has to be all or nothing. Do you see yourself getting addicted to anything else in life? Have you seen people translating that to then switch to becoming a workaholic or just wanting a bit more and a bit more of something else?

Kerrie Atherton (08:44)

It's a very good question because there definitely is a percentage of the population that do carry the addictive gene and doesn't mean that they're all alcoholics, but usually people that are alcoholics or have substance abuse disorders, there's usually a dual addiction. So I was also addicted to the. the pills, so I used to abuse pills and then prescription medication. And then there was the alcohol. I got very bored, so I would change boyfriends and jobs regularly. I used to go to clubs and I'd play poker machine. So I often lost money on poker machine. So I had a gambling problem also, you know, in the early days of drinking and getting sober.

I'm addicted to earrings. I've got a pair on today.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (09:43)

to translate that as an addiction to buying new things, maybe an addiction to, getting consumer products that can shape your appearance that can translate and other people might have a similar addiction. And where do you draw the line? Where do you say this is becoming an addiction? Are you saying that you are getting so many earrings that it affects the rest of your life? Maybe through your budget or things getting cluttered, something like that.

Kerrie Atherton (10:14)

And that's a very, that's fantastic question. And I actually was really grappling with this when I was doing some work around addictions recently. And look, what I came up with was if we call them indulgences, because everybody in life indulges in something, but it's the, is the cost? And is that cost becoming damaging to yourself or people around you?

And so I think that's the really big question there with is something an addiction? I mean a lot of people that break the alcohol and drug cycle go on to exercise because exercise releases endorphins and it's one of especially for men the greatest known positive strategy to help them with their mental health.

But exercise in itself becomes an addiction for so many. But here's the question: Is it something that's harmful to them or others? Usually not. So it's finding those positive strategies, and maybe people with the addictive personality will always do things a little bit to the extreme, but it's trying to maintain that self-control and that balance of

Okay, well, let's not let this get out of balance and out of control.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (11:42)

think anything can become a slippery slope. I read Russell Brand's book about addiction years ago, and he said, we can get addicted to anything at all. And the slippery slope with exercise is if you were exhausting yourself to the point where you are maybe feeling unwell, then you're taking it too far. If you are, now I'm the opposite of athletic. Also, I'm not saying this as an expert.

But any of us can push ourselves to try to achieve something as exhausting that's beyond what our bodies can handle, instead of gradually building up to it. There are ways where we could be addicted to achieving something in anything and then it goes too far. And so that's part of what we're talking about here, figuring out how we can do something without it going too far, but still stretching ourselves.

And for something really destructive, like pills and drinks, it could be saying, okay, it could be about saying, let's not have any of that. But with other things that we do need in our lives in some way, I mean, the medication you are taking for someone else, it's helpful. For you, you couldn't stop. And that can happen with anything. It's why so many people are workaholics. It's why some people go out to too many parties. It could be anything.

Kerrie Atherton (12:55)

Yeah.

And that's great insight. And I guess the question is, what's the reason or motivation behind what I'm indulging in? So a lot of people that I coach and counsel who are workaholics or have burnt themselves out or struggled with overwhelm, they may not have the addictive personality, but what's driving them is their need for love and approval and acceptance. And it may be, not in all cases, but in some people that I've counselled and worked with, they've been brought up with the sense that achieving is the thing that is going to be recognised. And that's what they were praised for by their parents. And if they felt that they didn't achieve, then they were insignificant or wouldn't be loved. So they've developed that core self-belief that in order for me to be loved and accepted in this world I must be a high achiever. And often that person, that belief can drive people to go on to become workaholics. I guess in my case and in the case of a lot of people that struggle with actual substance abuse, the avoidance behaviours is to avoid the pain of trauma in most cases. So we drink our feelings, we ingest our feelings, we eat our feelings. So it's looking at that behaviour, indulgence, whatever you want to call it, and okay, what's the motivation behind this? I think everyone in this, alcoholism is called the disease of denial.

And often people that have a drug problem too will deny that they do until they hit rock bottom. But I think deep down in everybody's psyche they have this inner sense of this is something's out of control here. And when we don't like that feeling that we're sitting with and it's not creating peace, well, that's when to pay attention and go, okay, well, does this need looking at?

Is there could be something really out of balance here because balance really is the key to a happy life.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (15:35)

Whatever balance looks like, and balance could be leaning in one direction one day and another direction another day, but we're saying don't let anything wreck you too much. So you mentioned the counselling. What sort of counselling background do you have?

Kerrie Atherton (15:53)

Well, I have a diploma in community welfare counselling and I also having my own lived experience of over 40 years in Alcoholics Anonymous, I have so much experience in that field. I've been working with people all my life in the community as a community leader, people that were really at risk, the homeless.

I've worked in schools for 12 years with troubled teenagers, running programs, I've written programs for youth in schools. And I see myself as an interventionist because I think early intervention and prevention is so much greater than cure. And my mission and my drive was knowing that I was a very troubled young person, to try and equip as many young people as possible with tools and strategies and knowledge so they didn't end up going down the path I did. Because as a counsellor and a coach now and a speaker and a mental health first aid trainer, I actually sit with people and I hear the stories of the loss in their life and the trauma, and I help them mop that up.

And in so many cases, had they had the knowledge earlier on or the insight or knowing the warning signs, a lot of that trauma could have been avoided. And so I'm really putting myself out there these days as a spokesperson on different topics, because if I can create awareness, awareness brings hope.

And that's what I set out to do when I started Stories of Hope. I hit my own personal rock bottom back to the first question, you know, eight years ago, after losing both my parents and going through what I now call a trauma trigger tsunami of events, which hit me just one after the other, after the other, and I could barely get back up. And I desperately searched for somebody that could.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (17:44)

Just saying.

Kerrie Atherton (18:10)

that had been through that kind of level of trauma, that could tell me I'd be okay, and I actually couldn't find that person. So I decided if I can't find that person, I'm going to become that person for others. And that's when I started this movement, Stories of Hope.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (18:26)

We have similar perspectives there because I found that I just wasn't reaching the information that I needed to get back on track. The podcast, people like you on the podcast, it's becoming revolutionary because we are finding the people who have the answers, and maybe the world is not distributing the access to leadership, the access to information and guidance, or there's a gap that needs to be filled. And you are doing that in Queensland and I've seen that with people from anywhere. I am so curious. You said that for some of the young people in school, some of these traumas could have been avoided. What's going on there?

Kerrie Atherton (19:19)

It's really some of the traumas could have been avoided for people of all ages, really. But I think, and I've been doing a lot of talking to people that are really working in the space with young people now. And I interviewed a young guy from the man cave, and I spoke, actually spoke to Daniel Principe yesterday who's really leading the way in schools and picked his brain about his thoughts on different things, but I think what the big problem with young people now is social media, their definition of self, the false narratives of what success look like, the false narratives of what a boy should be like, what a girl should be like, and the fact that parents are so time poor these days.

And I think a lot of parents are struggling to keep up with the different things that their kids are being exposed to on social media. It's like a minefield. I mean, my own daughter is a very young mum. She had my granddaughter at 21. And she's struggling to keep up. And there's a lot of older parents out there. And I just think that parents not by their own fault, unless they're studying this stuff every day, they can become really clueless to what is actually going on and what their kids are being faced with. And so I think that's the biggest struggle. And there's been a lot of parents that have contacted me too and said, I found out that my son or daughter is on drugs. And when I actually...

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (21:12)

to you tonight.

Kerrie Atherton (21:14)

Yeah, well, maybe around 15, these parents have come to me, and something had happened, and they'd just found out. And then when I actually have a chat to the child, they've been smoking weed since year seven. Year seven? Yeah, yeah. And in a lot of schools here on the coast, I've been told by those kids that are smoking weed that half the class are smoking weed in year seven.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (21:29)

Year seven. So about age 13, 12, something like

half the class. So for anyone

Kerrie Atherton (21:46)

In every school, okay, but yeah, but this, but but the particular kids that spoke to me are their schools' half the class in year seven, and they were government schools.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (21:48)

Okay, now everybody.

Okay, to translate that for those who are listening elsewhere. So you're at the Sunshine Coast? Yes. So, for those who don't know, Kerrie is above Brisbane, the main city in Queensland. So the state above Sydney is subtropical. That's what you call it, subtropical, right? It's amazing. And it looks like a constant holiday, but behind the scenes, you have schools that might be disadvantaged or simply having social problems.

Kerrie Atherton (22:07)

Yeah, Queensland,

Yeah. ⁓

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (22:32)

And then these children, at around age 12 or 13, are ending up on drugs when they are still developing and finding themselves, finding their identities and guaranteed these same kids who are on these drugs are also seeing social media where there are all sorts of issues going on there.

Kerrie Atherton (22:54)

Yeah, that's well put, that's right. I tried around six years ago to put my parents program out there in the community, and that was called Don't Lose Your Teen in the In-Between and it was for parents of kids that were about to go into year seven.

And I had so much pushback, or it was almost like parents, even I had some primary school deputies in year six say, Oh no, our kids aren't into that stuff, you know. And I'm thinking, you just give it a couple of years and if there's no warnings put in place and no awareness, they will be. Because I would see kids at the school that I worked at, I worked at a P to 12 school.

And I would see kids that were in year six were like the absolute angels of the class, very conservative kids, beautiful families. And they'd be the last kids that you would think would end up accidentally sending a nude photo to a guy trying drugs. And then two years on, they're like totally different children. They were just lost in two years, you know. And that was kind of where my motivation for running these programs that I wrote came from.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (24:18)

Okay, there's

So much is going on there. Firstly, Peter 12, even over here, we have kindergarten that Queensland calls prep. So basically, you're talking about school that's basically age five or six until the end of schoo,l until age 18. So a big school and all of those ages together. And you brought up some big things. And I think you're educating me because

I knew social media was a problem, and that's a whole thing in itself. But if young girls are sending pictures of themselves to guys, that is so serious because you don't know where those photos will end up, and it shouldn't be getting sent to anyone anyway. But it sounds like there's a need for education about how to use the internet. And the slippery slope is that

The internet can be used for good to find information, to hear conversations like this, but it's like a good thing as being used for evil.

Kerrie Atherton (25:20)

Yeah.

Yeah, that's right. And I've heard a statistic the other day that one in 200 children now will be sextorted on the internet. So through AI, a fake video will be made of them or pictures or something like that. It will be sent to them.

And even if they maybe did send something as well, a scammer will send them a message and say, if you don't pay this money, or we're going to release these pictures out to all your network. And this is a terrifying thing for young people. I actually know some young people that this has happened to, but one in 200 young people are being targeted now and I think this plays into why the social media laws have been changed. Now look, I actually know a lot of therapists and parents that aren't happy with the social media laws. Yeah, they're being changed. I think they're worried because also there's a new statistic out now that the loneliest demographic that we have are

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (26:33)

Tell me, I'm curious about this, what's going on.

Kerrie Atherton (26:46)

boys in between the ages of 16 and 24. In society, they're our loneliest demographic. And 53 % of men from the ages of 35, I think, to 55 report feeling lonely as well. But we'll go back to the kids. So for an increasing number of children, their social network now is online, they're finding it more and more difficult to socially interact outside the online space. So I think for the parents of those kids, there's a real concern that if they're restricted from certain platforms, that it's really going to impact badly on their mental health. But I'm on the other side. I've seen the damage of social media far too often.

And I think that these laws are really good. And what it means is parents are going to have to become more aware, and they're going to have to knuckle down, and they're going to have to monitor what their kids are doing and how much time is being spent. And as I said before, I'm empathetic towards parents these days because finances are so tough. A lot of parents, both of them have to work in the family and there isn't a lot of that time to be able to be monitoring what your kid's doing on social media.

But parenting's never been an easy job; it's a tough job. I said this a few weeks ago, and somebody that specialises in the field said it yesterday. If we're not parenting our children, social media will be doing it for us. And that's the bottom line.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (28:36)

Yes.

I think so much is going on here. So I want to mention screen addictions as well. Honestly, I didn't set out with any particular agenda for this conversation, but this is where we have ended up.

Kerrie Atherton (28:53)

Really going with the flow, aren't we?

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (28:54)

Oh, I know, I know, because the thing is, you had your addiction journey, but now I think that young people, that's the thing to focus on. I had been mainly concerned about how, how people in their thirties and forties are trying to look after themselves. But I would say, unless you are partnered and never planning to have kids and maybe there are some people listening who will never have to deal with this but if you are if you have a family or if you are dating and might end up in a relationship with someone who has a family whatever it might be this will be an issue for you and you could be looking after your career but not thinking about how the internet is affecting your kids because we all end up too busy to think about it.

And it's good that we are having this conversation, that the grownups will listen to, because I think I've been, I get exhausted having the screen addiction debate with the grownups. I really do because some adults will be saying that it's emotionally regulating. And the hard thing is, I've been saying this to a few people. When I was young enough, frankly, actually, I don't know how close you are to my age, but I grew up seeing the tail end of the cassette tape era. And okay, look, I look at the tail end of it. I'll put it this way. I was about to, I was getting ready to soon start high school when I was seeing Britney Spears' Baby One More Time videos. Okay. That's where I am. And you put on a CD. I went to Disneyland, and I still remember I went to Disneyland with my grandparents, and then we went to a nearby store, and I bought a Britney Spears album in a CD case. And that was me going wild, having gummy bears and the most innocent album from Britney. My big pressure then was that I wished I could look like her in this. I knew that she'd been in a photo shoot. She was on a cover. It was a lot less of a blurred line. We knew these people were celebrities with a hair team. mean, even young people knew, come on, there was something behind that. But now there are so many things going on because if a young person wants to listen to music, the standard is to get what an iPad or an iPhone or a similar and even

Kerrie Atherton (31:22)

Yeah.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (31:44)

I miss the days when it was normal to at least have an iPod that didn't have a screen, because then you're not dealing with all that stuff. You have the option to just listen to some tunes without dealing with all these other things. Gosh, that was a rant.

Kerrie Atherton (32:01)

You touched on a good point before, because when I put posts up about my work and everything, I get a lot of interaction on LinkedIn. When I put up a post, though, about parenting, I get very little traction. And you said before, people are caught up like, you know, working in their professions and everything. But at the end of the day, every person that is a parent, when you nail it right down, their most important thing in their life is their children. And

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (32:18)

⁓ interesting.

has to be.

Kerrie Atherton (32:41)

So many people that are, especially workaholics that are so caught up say that, gosh, where did my kids teenage years go? They've gone. Now they're graduating. Where did that time go? And we're talking about a lot of the issues and problems today, but something that I always want to talk about is hope and about how we can turn things around and how it's never too late and how the problem's never too big.

There's one very, very simple thing that could be a starting point to parents reconnecting with their kids, no matter how far out of control their kids have got, or keeping that connection to their kids. And as I spoke with a specialist yesterday, the truth is that kids are saying they still want their parents to be the first ones that they can go to.

So, and that thing is the five love languages. And a lot of people still haven't heard about the five love languages. But if parents know what their children's love languages are, their top two love languages, they will stay emotionally connected to their children. And when their children go through something, those parents will be the ones that those kids will go to. If they are not...

emotionally connected to their children through their child's love language, the kid will go somewhere else.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (34:11)

They will look for it wherever they can find it. And something else that flowed as you were talking, I'm seeing anyone who is managing a group of adults as well, or leading it could be community or corporate or something else. Give them the flexibility and the understanding to simultaneously achieve results and support their families at the same time. This is crucial because it looks, let me know if you agree.

Kerrie Atherton (34:37)

Yeah.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (34:40)

It looks like the whole balance thing looks like a perfect, neat ideal. And just, I want to be pampered at this far. We're not talking about that. We're not talking about perfect balance. We're saying that if people don't get the minimum flexibility to support both at the same time, then from the stories you are telling, things can get really colourful, and it's better to have the prevention.

Kerrie Atherton (35:06)

Absolutely, and something else that is becoming one of our biggest... what's the word to use?

Our biggest problems, I don't want to call it our biggest killers, but our biggest problems is comparison. And that comes from social media, and that's hitting every single demographic and every person. You've got the young guys in particular, you've got the narratives with toxic masculine figures out there, really dominating about what

a young guy should look like, what they should be doing, how successful they should be and what that looks like. And what that looks like is almost unattainable for the normal person than these narratives that are being pushed out. And then you've got girls continually comparing themselves on social media.

Eating disorders have gone through the roof, and especially there's such an increase with boys with eating disorders now as well. And then there's also the demographic of mums who see what all the other mums are doing and seeing them on their best day. You know, and that's the benchmark of where my life should be.

But I think what we all have to remember is what's going on on people's worst days. We're not seeing that on social media, and we're only seeing the best day. And so then that should never be the benchmark for how our life should be. And then on the flow on from that, a lot of guys in their 30s and 40s feel pressure to give their family this beautiful life that's being displayed on social media that everyone else is having.

And then the financial pressure is absolutely, it's choking, it's enormous. And I know a lot of guys find it difficult to stand up and say, Look, we can't have that life. This is the life we can have. And so they're constantly spinning that wheel, trying to make that happen and feeling like a failure if they don't, because of what they're being told on social media. So there's just a whole lot of different dynamics going on.

And I just say to anyone out there, if you're feeling unhappy or anxious or depressed or uncertainty has really got hold of you, just reach out and get some kind of talk to some kind of therapist. You know, there's nothing wrong with seeking help and by seeking help early. And I teach this as a mental health first aid trainer. By seeking help early.

There's so much hope for mental health. Now we all have it. There's a continuum of mental health, with poor mental health on one side and good on the other. And we all sit somewhere on that continuum, and we can move from poor to good mental health on any day, week or month, depending on what's going on in our lives.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (38:31)

So it can, you talk about a continuum, but it seems like the levels can be waves or zigzags.

Kerrie Atherton (38:41)

That's it. And I think the good news with that is if we are sitting low for a few days or something, because something's going on in our life, that also means that when those situations subside or get a bit easier, we can move back up to positive mental health. It doesn't necessarily mean I have a mental health disorder.

If somebody's been down low for about three or four weeks and they can't seem to pull themselves back up and there's behavioural signs and they're sleeping more and they're not wanting to socialise, they are warning signs that we talk about and we teach in the mental health first aid training. But it's being self-aware and realising, yeah, look, I might feel a bit down today or this week, but what's going on in my life?

And maybe there's a reason for that. And so there, can offer that, know, optimism of if we are low, it doesn't mean we can't move back up and be positive with the right self-care strategies and the right support networks in place.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (39:52)

For sure. And you mentioned going to some sort of therapy alongside that. I am keen to hear your opinion about also connecting with in-person community and also online supportive spaces. And this is why I wanted to differentiate, because we are having this conversation, and people will be hearing it on a device. And you would have some sort of online spaces where you share the word about your stories of hope.

And I'm so keen to get my next in-person events. And I love connecting further through online spaces, but whatever people are into community, think that there's something magical about community because it can be more ongoing than the one hour session. And you can have more people than the one who's focusing just on you. Do you think that is really crucial?

Kerrie Atherton (40:52)

Absolutely, absolutely.

What we talk about in the mental health first aid training is what other networks and support systems do you have in place, other than just going to your doctor and going to see a health professional, whether it be a counsellor, psychologist or whatever. It's so important. And when people come to me privately for counselling, I try and get them engaged in as many other things as possible because the opposite of addiction is connection.

And people were born for connection, and connection in itself is actually a life-saving factor in the life of somebody who is feeling suicidal or really depressed. So the more we can get people connected to outside organisations, whether, look, if it's somebody that's socially anxious that they feel like they can't get out to an in-person, getting online with an online group. So this is the benefit of social media, of course, is providing positive connections, but it's keeping that positive connection at the foremost, which is most important. But there's Head to Health website. There's Beyond Blue website. Yeah, Head to Health, Beyond Blue website. And they have so many different

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (42:14)

to health.

Kerrie Atherton (42:22)

components to their website, which can help in every single imaginable thing that you're going through. There's events like my stories of hope events, and that's why I created that community. And when I pick speakers to come along to that, I often pick speakers also that are running other community events. And they've started that purpose out of their own hard time. And then I've got people from my community events now that have joined others, and they've found just so much hope because now they have this, they had no one, and they felt all alone. And all of a sudden, now they're connected to two or three different communities with different people. And so it's ⁓ looking, what am I interested in? How can I get connected? For people that are caring, for people with mental health, it's plugging into that yourself and thinking, maybe I can go along with them if they don't feel comfortable turning up to something the first time on their own, where can I take them? My clients also, I also talk to them about going to Alcoholics Anonymous as well as seeing me for addiction recovery, because I know Alcoholics Anonymous works. So there is so many things out there, but it's about finding the right support.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (43:26)

Also.

Kerrie Atherton (43:43)

for what that person's going through.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (43:46)

It sounds like you've seen some people with a social anxiety. Did you find that some of them, did you find some individuals are feeling more comfortable with a smaller group instead of a large crowd?

Kerrie Atherton (44:00)

There's definitely people that struggle with a large crowd. I mean, I actually don't really like, I'm a bit of a funny one. I'm an ambivert. So I'm really energised by people, but I'm also very much a one-on-one. And then if I'm out at a party or something like that, I'll be talking and connecting to the max. And then I'm like, I've had enough. Don't, I'm going home now, you know.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (44:13)

Okay.

Kerrie Atherton (44:29)

But I suffered from a lot of fear of humiliation and loneliness right through my schooling up until year 10, and I actually hardly had any friends, and I spent nearly every lunchtime in the library and I was publicly humiliated in my classes by teachers and students, and I was mocked and bullied because I was the really overweight kid in the school. And as a result of that, I still have some residue of not

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (44:48)

happened.

well.

Kerrie Atherton (44:59)

It's not a sense of feeling less than, or it's ⁓ more of a fear of looking like I feel like I'm on my own. And so I still struggle a little bit with walking into big events if I don't know anyone and I am on my own, but I do it afraid. You know, I always find someone to talk to, but I heard something a long time ago where if you want to have friends, you have to be a friend. And I realised that that meant I had to put my fear aside of being humiliated or feeling alone in a crowd. And I had to put that aside. And so what I intentionally do now is to try and connect up with people and make them feel encouraged. And since adopting that mentality. I've got so many friends and connections now that when I go for lunch or down for a coffee at my lullabah, the person with me is like, How many people do you know? But I just love people, and it's something that has really been so valuable in my life, having had so many years being so lonely.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (46:20)

Absolutely, absolutely. And I think that people can create their own groups, especially if someone is in a space that doesn't have a group like yours, or if they have a niche interest that needs its own group, absolutely. What other self-care strategies do you think everybody needs to know about?

Kerrie Atherton (46:46)

Look, they look different for everyone. A lot of exercise is very big, but the biggest contributor to self-care is sleep. That's become the no and number one fact out there in the medical field. That if people want to feel mentally well, they really need to be getting good sleep. Diet is the next one. People who are not eating well or have a poor diet have, I'm not, don't quote me on this, but I think it's around 700 % increased incidences of not thinking.

I'm just trying to remember exactly what the statistic was about. Yeah.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (47:34)

Okay, it doesn't have to be the precise words, but I'm curious about having common sense or about having an okay mood. Something like

Kerrie Atherton (47:44)

Yeah,

just not being able to think clearly, 700 % more likely to not be able to think clearly if they have a poor diet. sleeping, diet, but then exercise I think is the really big one that everyone, it releases endorphins and we need it for our physical health.

I go down and walk at the beach because I love the beach. I catch up with friends. I play the piano. And that was something when I gave up alcohol, they used to say to us in AA, when you give up alcohol, get an interest. And I already played the piano. So that became the thing that I turned to when I was wanting some kind of emotional outlet. And keeping in balance. So they're, look, they're my main ones. And I also have faith, you know, so I, you know, spend time with God and pray and read, you know, uplifting books and stuff like that. So they're kind of my self-care strategies, but they do look different for everyone. For someone, for a guy, might be playing golf, you know, or getting out and shooting paintballs. The girls might be, you know, shopping in moderation.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (49:07)

Yes, it's something that will uplift you, whatever it might be. And that's the crucial part, because some people might see golf as a social thing where they need to connect with people, or it could be their outlet or music. It's interesting you brought up music because some communities have a perfectionism about music, but if you can connect with the creativity for the joy of it, and at least privately for fun, some sort of

Kerrie Atherton (49:07)

bunch of friends.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (49:35)

creative activity, then that's using a different part of your brain, and it's letting you just do something for the joy of it without the pressure of something being a job, because not everything has to be your job.

Kerrie Atherton (49:48)

Yeah, that's

And not everything has to be perfect. I think like that was great what you said about the joy of it. Whatever things are pure, lovely, bring you joy, happiness. And they're not breaking the law. You can't get enough of those things, can you? And I think going on holidays, giving yourself a break, giving yourself some time to be kind to yourself.

And in my really, really darkest times, you know, sometimes it was just sitting in my room and reading that book and burning a candle that smelled nice. When I feel so low, anything that appeals to your five senses can be so lifting of your mood and emotions.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (50:37)

Something simple.

Absolutely. So I want to wind up, I normally ask for three, three actions anyone can take, but I think we're just talking at a whole lot of actions. I want to next step to how can people reach out for help? Do you support people beyond your events in other ways? And how can people get help aside from those websites?

And reminder, was beyond blue and something else that I hadn't heard of. was so keen to get an explanation of what that other website is.

Kerrie Atherton (51:22)

That's Head to Health, the other website. Head to Health. They would just Google Head to Health, and then that is the actual website. So it'd be www.Health.com.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (51:26)

What is it? Yes, what do they do? Where is it from?

Okay, okay. Is it from an organisation? Is it an NFP, or it's like, it's a government website. Okay.

Kerrie Atherton (51:42)

It's just a government website, and it's just really created for the health of people, and it's got a lot about mental health and that. Yeah, but I do, I see private clients and I also see private clients for addiction and trauma counselling, and I see business people who are burnt out and broken down in life, and I have a coaching package for them especially for people that feel like they're really disconnected from themselves and finding it hard to connect with others as well through the overwhelm of life. And so that's through my website, www.mpower, E-M-P-O-W-E-R, lifesolutions.com.au. And my other website is my Stories of Hope, which is www.storiesofhope.com.au.

And one way that people can be helped, you know, is through listening to the podcast. If they can't get to one of my events, they can listen to my Stories of Hope podcast and your podcast as well. And I think podcasts are great for that because

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (52:57)

And this one as well. See the other episodes of this podcast, of course.

Kerrie Atherton (53:06)

even when you could be at home and just feeling so low and feeling like I just haven't got it in me to go out and connect. But when you're sitting there listening to two people talking and connecting, it just does something in you because you feel part of that conversation, and you can hear voices talking. And so my really big thing that I would say to anyone is together is better. Don't do life alone, and don't let others do life alone.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (53:36)

together is better. Kerry, thank you so much for being on the show and sharing your wisdom.

Kerrie Atherton (53:42)

Thank you, Melanie. It was a real pleasure.