Podcast Episode: Gail Miller Discussing the Lived Experience of Menopause, Depression, and the HumanCharger

Transcript

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (00:00)

Welcome, Gail Miller, to the podcast. Gail, you have been involved with your husband, Gary Miller in setting up the introduction in the U S of the human charger. So, for those who don't know, let's start with what it even is.

Gail Miller (00:16)

Yes, that's.

Well, it's very simple. It's this little device, and you can see it's kind of bright. It is a bright light that goes through your ears like this. You press the button, and it's a transcranial bright light, UV-free. So, it's totally safe. And it goes straight to the back of your hypothalamus, and you're in the back of your head. And it really helps your circadian rhythm.

It improves your moods. It's unbelievable. And I certainly didn't think that that was what it was going to be when I started using it. thought, okay, well, we'll try it because usually for me, especially coming from the US, it's take a pill, put a patch on, you know, and all my friends, you have to try my vitamin or my thing or the doctors are throwing medicine at you.

And then you have to play around with the dosages, and you have to figure out where you're to be, and then something changes. So, when I discovered it after trying it and it really worked after about a week, I was ecstatic and basically, I didn't believe it was going to work. I didn't think it was going to do anything. It changed. First of all, my sleep pattern. So, for the first time since I was a kid,

I was waking up at like six in the morning without an alarm, wide awake. And I'm like, and not feeling any sort of, know, Oh God, I could roll over and go back to sleep. I was up. That was bizarre. That had been years since I was a kid. It's like being a little kid and you know, you just get up and you're like, okay, it's time to go play in the dirt or in the sandbox or something. You’ve got to do something.

So that's how I felt when I started using it. And I was putting in, you know, eight to 12-hour days in a basement in a ski resort in Austria. I didn't speak the language, and I was right in the middle of menopause and all those wonderful symptoms. And I was on antidepressants, and I'm like, there's got to be something else. I really didn't think it was going to work. And it was unbelievable. After about a week, it took about a week for me to notice it. So I would use it once in the morning. You press the button. It goes on for 12 minutes. And people were laughing at me. know, Austrians are tough. They're tough people, man. They power through anything. So, you know, it's like, no, that's not going to work. This is crazy. And they're looking at me, and they're like, Where are you getting this energy? And they're, you know, they're drinking their cappuccino and their drinks. And I'm like, look.

I feel great. So, and I like my coffee. I especially like European coffee, because it tastes better than American groundwater. know, so I just started to notice, first of all, my energy changed. And then about midday, when I would start to feel the slump, I would put it in again, and I'd press the button again. And that just sort of gave me another sort of push to get through till like seven or eight at night, depending on when I was done with work. Then I'd get back on the bus, and I'd go in, and it didn't affect my sleep. My, what happened with my sleep is instead of, you know, up and down, up and down with menopause or pre menopause, I just started to sleep really deeply through the night. And then I'd be up in the morning and going again. And what my moods were better. I was happier people were looking at me like, well, this is really strange. My husband would meet me on the weekends. We'd go ski for a day or two. Then, and he's like, Wow, what's going on? So I weaned myself with the doctor's permission off of the antidepressants. And I just started using it often, you know, every single day, sometimes two, sometimes three ⁓ times a day. didn't affect my sleep at night, but ⁓

My mood was better. My sleep was better. It was, it was really strange, and I really didn't think it was going to do the trick. And then I, I spent the whole winter there. I was trying to, you know, tell people about it. The friends that we had used it for travelling back to the U.S. were in their seventies. They had no jet lag. Yeah, they were doctors, and I'm like, you didn't have any jet lag. And they're like, no.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (05:10)

that to the doctors.

Gail Miller (05:15)

So we started giving it to Olympic athletes and friends of ours, and no negative feedback. And I'm like, nothing? You got nothing. So in the spring, when I was done with my stint at this ski shop, I jumped on a plane and flew from Portugal to Seattle. And

with a, don't know, it was like a three or four hour layover in New York. I arrived there, I had no jet lag. It was the strangest thing I'd ever experienced in my life. I was like, This is crazy. I used it up till nine o'clock at night when I had arrived to get in the car, now, right at the end when you're just starting going, when you're like, okay, I'm here now, and I'm just now, it's late at night, I'm.

Kind of getting tired. I used it one more time. I crawled into bed, I read three or four sentences, and then I was out cold. Then, at six or seven in the morning, I was wide awake and ready to go. I just hit the ground running, and I was like This is unbelievable because I've always been affected. So, every time I used it I travelled after that. I didn't have any issues. It was so strange so I just like how it makes me feel. like to finally not have to take a million pills, you know.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (06:47)

Talk about all of that. And I can see you as such an advocate, and you really believe in this thing. You are in awe essentially of the impact that it has had. But I wanted to investigate some of the issues that didn't work and what was happening. You mentioned that you had a hysterectomy. That's something in itself, but a lot of women have all sorts of hormonal issues, and the media is giving a lot more attention now to how women's health isn't researched as much as men's health and women have been kept out of studies. I'm seeing a nod. So even for a health issue that could affect everybody, women have been excluded from studies. There's a lot that isn't known, and it's a cultural expectation not to talk about women's health a little bit.

Gail Miller (07:29)

yeah.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (07:45)

But I'm really curious about that as much as you want to share it. You mentioned the depression. I'm curious, was the depression tied in with hormones, or is that a separate thing?

Gail Miller (07:57)

Well, I was diagnosed much later in life with panic attacks. They said, You probably have ADHD, but they're all connected. Everything's connected. I had a male doctor, a male psychiatrist. Well, just don't worry about it here. We'll just take a pill. When in doubt, have another medication. It might ruin your sex drive. It might, you know.

They'll give you a million, well, try this for a while, and if that doesn't work, we'll try this. So your body is going, you're on a roller coaster. It's crazy. And my mother died when I was 17, so nobody to talk to about it. I had a doctor in Park City who was a female doctor before my hysterectomy, who told me that I would be fine, and I would lose weight, and everything would be better if I just ran.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (08:32)

A lot of side effects.

Gail Miller (08:54)

You know, two hours every day after work. You know, go teach skiing, go do your design and then go running, and you'll be better. Yeah, I'm a designer by interior design. Yeah, so I was just like, I guess, you know, this is just what happens as you get older and no one to talk to about it. And they weren't certainly sharing information. So when I finally had the hysterectomy… They left my ovaries in, which was supposed to help my hormones, but they never talked about hormone replacement, nothing. This was in the US. This was so frightening to me. And we moved to Portugal first, and I was a wreck. I was a basket case. And I went to a mall in Portugal where there was a doctor's office, and the girls at the front desk knew more than the doctors that I'd spoken to.

And they were like, you need to have an endocrinologist. They need to test your da da da da da. They test your blood. And I went through all that, and he goes, Well, you're not on any hormones or antidepressants. know, so he gave me all the medicine, but it's still medicine. And that was, know, and then you have to monitor yourself and do all that. There was no other help, you know, go out, get your exercise and do your thing. But that's not the only answer.

And I really thought that was it. And I have friends that sell, you know, every kind of vitamin, you take this, this will make you feel better. And this, you know, join my club and do this. And I'm like, okay, well, that's a lot of money. And then I have to call my friends, and then they have to have me buy this. And then, you know, that gets old. And it,

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (10:45)

It's a lot to, in multiple countries, people were telling you to just pop a pill.

Gail Miller (10:50)

Yeah, pop a bill, try this, do this. But it was always some sort of pill or patch. So it really wasn't anything that really helped. And then when I discovered this device, the difference right away, I could tell with my sleeping and then my moods. I was like, I don't want to take so much medicine. Then I went back to the doctor and I went.

You know, I'm feeling a lot better, and they don't want you to get off the medicine. So it was, I was pretty careful about how I weaned myself off, but I mean, yeah, no antidepressant.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (11:29)

I don't want you to go off it.

Gail Miller (11:36)

Now, I, I, what?

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (11:36)

Why don't

they want you to go off it?

Gail Miller (11:41)

because they don't want you to be sad or get moody or cause any problems. Just be quiet and go shh. There's a lot of shh. You're supposed to be happy and lovely, and really, it's a strange thing. And I'm hearing it now that if they're talking about it, women are talking about it more and more, and I'm really happy about it, but that, you know, because the young people are saying, you know, in their forties, they're going, well, this is happening and this is happening. I'm like, well, just wait till you, your skin changes, and you're everything changes. And nobody was there to tell me about it. And, and, and so the more women talk about it, I think the better it is, but you get all the symptoms with it, and everybody's affected differently. So, for me, the human charger and the light, I'm like, ' Okay, so this isn't going to hurt me.' My brain's not gonna light up and go on fire. And I was like, okay, it's not a tanning bed in my brain. That's pretty good. So I was really, really excited that I had found something that's sort of, it's not a cure, but it's an aid. And I'm like, okay, so it's not.

I don't have to spend three to five hundred dollars a month on a vitamin. This is just something that I can do. And if and if you can get outside, it's the best way to do it. I mean, I don't know what it's like down down where you are. But if you can go outside, that's the best thing you can possibly do. Get outside and get fresh air. But you can't always do that. And a lot of people are working inside. They're looking at their screens. And then this this was like, I'm.

I'm here, I'm present, I'm awake, I'm focused. For me, that was a really, really big deal and I just felt better. So I actually have a friend that we gave it to, she's a flight attendant. We said, well, try this just because I wanna know if it works for you when you're flying. For me, was, how many people could I have that I know try this because they're gonna tell me whether I'm crazy and whether it's psychosomatic or whether or not.

This actually might. Yeah, yeah. Well, what's the deal? And I'm not a scientist. I'm just a woman. So this.

Well, it's more than that, though. You say you're just a woman, but let's look into it for a second, the professional side of things, because I personally believe that when you have family working in a particular field, it does overflow into your field of knowledge. You can absorb their knowledge. And so it's very relevant to say that you were

Working in a ski shop because Gary, your husband, is a great ski coach, and however you were in a basement for so many hours in the day, I didn't realise it was that many hours, which is 10 hours in the day.

Gail Miller (14:58)

yeah, end-of-fluorescent lights. So I can't even imagine people, you know, I can't imagine people that go to work into an office, they look at it, they sit in a cubicle, have lousy light, you know, they get a small tiny break and they're staring at their computer screens or whatever, or they're on their phones. That's hard. And you know, in the old days, people take their cigarette breaks. They did that in Lex.

A lot of the kids were out smoking, which blew my mind, but that was something. And the first thing they would do is sit out and get whatever sun they could get. But when the days were dark and cloudy or snowing, can't get the light. So for me, this was really important and it was really great. And I could definitely, definitely tell the difference. This other woman, this flight attendant, she is completely off of all of her medicine and her antidepressants.

It doesn't help her when she flies because her turnaround time is really fast. So she'll fly long distances and then she'll come back and she. That so it doesn't help her that way. She's just programmed. She's done it for so long. But she uses it every day religiously. She's like I it's the best. It just keeps her happy and sort of

It's kind of like this, you're kind of like going along and everything's sort of easy, which,

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (16:30)

What was her difference before this? Is she having struggles with moods? Was there something else?

Gail Miller (16:39)

It's that same, you know, I think we're probably we were probably similar in age. You know, the girls are in college. She was on antidepressants, you know, her body's changing. She's going through all this, and she didn't want to be on all the pills. So I think a lot of people are looking for something else, something that isn't a pill popper. When I first moved from the US to Europe, I was on like.

600 milligrams to 800 milligrams of ibuprofen a day, know, headaches and body aches and whatever. Not anymore. And I don't know. I don't, I can't contribute that to the food, but I know that the bad food and all of that is not good for you. So this gives me energy, makes me feel better, makes me want to get up and go out and move.

And that was huge. like, okay, I can get up in the morning, and I can go for a hike, or I can go work out, and I have the energy to do it. Which is wild.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (17:42)

And, she said that you two travel to other countries quite frequently to go skiing in different places. So that's a lot of good shift. Let's look at that for a second.

Gail Miller (17:55)

It's just like, it's like just depending on what the weather is, where you go and how you do it. I like the convenience because I can take it and wear it. It's really funny because people don't know about it. They think you're listening to music because you just got these little ear things in, and they think you're rocking out, and then the light will go off. But I have, I have spoken to many people. grew up in the ski lodge business. So I blah, blah, blah, blah. And I talked to you about, you know, what it is and why it is. And it's been life-changing for me. And I use it all the time. And I can't imagine life without it. It wakes me up. It corrects my sleep. It helps my cortisol, my estrogen. It just mellows me out. I'm not sort of a crazy middle-aged monster anymore, I guess.

I don't feel like I am.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (18:57)

attempted to ask the rude question of age because, as always taught, don't ask about age, but what sort of age are we talking about where these things are happening?

Gail Miller (19:07)

Well, let's see, I'm 57 now. So I don't know. It's been about 10 years or more. Yeah, it's unbelievable. Some people started at their 40s. Some people it's later. You know, I do know that some people get it early, early onset symptoms. You know, that's brutal.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (19:15)

Really?

Gail Miller (19:34)

You're trying to raise your children, and you're going through these things, and you can't control your moods. You can't control, and then you're popping pills, and you've got to be with it, and you've got to work, and you've got to be professional. That's a lot. There's a lot to ask of a woman. And, you know, the guy comes home and he works all day, and yeah, he works hard, let's say. And then he takes his stuff off and goes to bed, but the mom is, you know, putting the kids to bed. This isn't everybody, but putting the kids to bed, making sure the backpacks are ready, is the lunch ready? So we're working all the time. And so anything that will help sort of get you through that. Then, to turn your brain off at the end of the day is really hard. And it was nice to just have the energy during the day and then lay down, read a few sentences and fall asleep. It was amazing and really sleep. Because if you don't have that sleep and your circadian rhythm is off, you know, you just become worse and worse. It's not good.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (20:41)

So the sleep is really crucial to steady all of these other issues.

Gail Miller (20:46)

I think it's just about everything. But the difference, I think, was it's not depressive sleep, it's quality sleep that I ended up getting, where I would go to sleep and I'm out, but then I'm just up, versus sleeping and then I'm up and then I'm sleeping. And then it just prolongs, you wait till 10 minutes till you have to get out the door, and you're like, I gotta get dressed, I gotta go because you're so depressed. It sort of changed everything for me. And it took that away from everyone, I have friends now trying it that are my age and some that are younger, and they're like, wow, this is really nice. But like I said, it's not like you pop a pill and it's magic. It's clearly gonna affect everybody differently, just like light will.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (21:20)

Yes.

Gail Miller (21:46)

But man, it really helps.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (21:49)

And light is so essential because light is just a part of the world. So there's something very simple about the light. And you said that you didn't have a mother to explain some of these things that happen at different ages. And I think that by sharing your experience, you can fill that role in this conversation episode for the people listening, because they might not

have that for whatever reason as well. And in my experience, I just don't talk about those things so much with my mother, but I remember, I don't know if migraines were an issue for you, but for a long time when I was growing up, my grandmother would say to me, She is so sorry, I genetically inherited her tendency to get migraines. It just happens. And I would say that one of my worst phases of having even more than a migraine is back around February and March this year. I was getting a bit addicted to volunteering. It has happened a few times in my life. It's doing a lot, and I just wanted to give and to do and to give and to do. And then my head was going fuzzy. I can't even explain it. My head was fuzzy, and I was totally losing my energy.

But I think that for months, really in the autumn and winter over here, that we're now just out of, I think that my moods were just a total zigzag, and it was just like every so often, I just wasn't me. So I'm really curious if that sort of thing is what some women are experiencing, where you might get so depressed or just so sad. Where are you wondering? What is going on? It doesn't feel coincidental that a lot of this was going on. Well, some of my worst moods were in the winter. And I think what I've learned from both you and Gary is just hearing about the impact of the seasons where there isn't a lot of light, because in Australia, we don't talk about it.

Gail Miller (24:11)

Well, that's

Well, we don't. And SAD is huge. And that's why this thing was originally developed. And a lot of the symptoms are the same. So you feel depressed. You're bummed out. Your moods are crazy. You get headaches. You're tired all the time. So I think they parallel a lot. And I think women are going through this, and they're kind of going through it really quietly. They're trying not to rock the boat. They're trying to keep the peace, but you're going through it, and a lot of people just don't know how much and how important the light really is. I mean, it's great if you can go outside every day and be in the sunshine. That's super great, but you still have a workload. So I think it's absolutely crazy important that women talk about all this stuff, and that's what's going on. My daughter uses it, and she suffers migraines. She uses it on her way to work, and then she gets to work, and she's like I can, I can focus down on her so her headaches aren't gone, but they're better. Maybe it's helping. I don't know. I can't measure it, but I'm like, okay, are you feeling better? Your sleep is better. That's gotta be something. Something is better than nothing. So the more I think we talk about it, and like for you, the more you put on your plate, you need a little, it's kind of like having somebody sort of just go, it's okay, you're gonna be okay, but you have it around your neck, and you can do it very quietly and subtly.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (26:07)

You can, I was wondering about that. I was trying to explain the device to a friend last night because I haven't actually seen one physically in person yet, but you have one there. Yes. You're sending one. So it's on its way. It literally, for those who are listening to audio, we'll have the video up, but for those listening to audio, it literally looks like headphones basically.

Gail Miller (26:18)

We're set, I think we're sending. Are we sending?

Yeah, and what I like about it because I'm not, you know, one of these techie people. So I like it because I can press the button and I don't have to put a timer on for 12 minutes. It'll just turn off. So, if I'm having a really sort of a dark, it's raining this year where I live, there was a lot of rain. So. It was, is kind of dark and depressing. So I was popping that thing, you know, once and then drinking my coffee, and then I'd pop it again in the morning right away. And that sort of was like, and I was sort of up.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (27:10)

Did you?

Did you get a lot of rain in recent months?

Gail Miller (27:19)

Yeah, well, I'm in Bavaria. I'm in Garmisch, like right near Garmisch-Partenkirchen. And it was a really, really rainy summer for everyone. So, you know, on those days, you know, the fall was very rainy as well. So, you know, you get up, you put it in, pop, pop, and then you're just like, okay, I'm ready to go work. I'm good.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (27:43)

That's telling me something because although I'm so far away, where I live in Newcastle, North of Sydney, we had, I think, three floods. It was severe floods. And then a couple of weeks or a few weeks later, there were more floods. And although people got out a little bit,

There was so much rain in that, and it was a really miserable time, and people felt a bit scared. People wonder if they can even travel. So with that going on, I'd said it was really nearly a couple of months of just keeping out of the floods on and off.

Gail Miller (28:24)

That's, and that's scary. So that adds to your stress, and it's no good. The only other thing that I know of that they use for SAD, which to me all ties together, is those big, huge lamps. So we got one for a while last year. We were playing around with it, and you had to sit like this right in front of the bloody, you had to sit right. And I’m thinking to myself, okay, you can't have your glasses.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (28:26)

It is.

My goodness.

Gail Miller (28:50)

And you have to sit right in front of this thing. And I said, there's no way for 45 minutes, I'd have to be shot. don't have the patience for that kind of thing. I mean, I barely have the patience to sit still for five seconds. You know, I'm kind of spastic. So I'm like, you, you got to be kidding. I can't sit there and wait for this. Then you hear about, for me, one of the big things and I wish more people wouldn't do this. I may be going through my life transition.

But you think about young kids today, and they're in front of screens all the time. They're doing sports all the time. They're depressed. They're having all sorts of issues. And I'm like, they need something. And if you had to ask a young person to make them feel better, to sit in front of a light box, no way. Or they'd get like, I have.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (29:45)

No.

Gail Miller (29:48)

friends who've got their kids these little iPad programs, and I'm like, come on, they are not going to stare at a light screen. It sounds like some horror movie, you know, like Poltergeist.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (29:57)

programs.

What do you mean? Sorry, what sort of iPad programs? What's that about?

Gail Miller (30:05)

It's, a, you could put it on your, your iPad and it's a program where it has a light. And I'm like, come on. Someone paid money for

I just can't for their kids. And because the kids are up in where it's dark in the college and stuff. And I'm just thinking to myself, there is no earthly way that those kids are going to sit in front of the screens. Do you ever see the movie Poltergeist, the original and the

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (30:31)

No.

Gail Miller (30:33)

In the old days, when the TVs were really old and they would go off the air, you'd get static on the thing. And I'm like, that's what it reminded me of. You stare at the static, and you, you know, forget it. It's not gonna happen. Something has to be able to help us that is practical and easy.

Otherwise, who wants to do it? Nobody wants to do it.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (30:55)

Yes, it has to be practical and easy. Also, it sounds like with that light that you were looking at, you said it's 45 minutes. That's the time in a day.

Gail Miller (31:05)

Yeah.

I don't know anybody who has 45 minutes. I really don't. We're moving too quickly. I mean, I guess if you could meditate, but typically when you meditate, don't you shut your eyes? Close your eyes. I'm like, I can't do that and look at the light box and sit there. I just couldn't do it. You know, between the bad lighting for in office buildings and dark nights and things like that, really helps. It really helps. At least it helped me. And if it doesn't help someone, then maybe something else will be developed out there. We're starting to see more and more people that I trust that are going, OK. And some it's just a little, and some it's not as much. But man, I'll take.

Anything to make myself feel better and get off the pills and go, okay, I'm human again. It's important

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (32:17)

Yes. And to contrast the alternatives and the options, I'm curious, what were some of the side effects of the pills that you were taking before you were having this option?

Gail Miller (32:31)

If you're married and you're taking some sort of medicine, it affects your sex drive, which makes your husband unhappy, which causes stress, which puts you right back into the, you're like a hamster on a wheel, right? Or you're tired, or you're not motivated. So you're supposed to be feeling better.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (32:57)

But you don't. So the pills make you tired and not motivated.

Gail Miller (33:02)

Yeah, so I'm like, okay, so I'm supposed to feel happy, but I am sort of, it's not like you're stoned, but I guess you just sort of going along, going, ooh, you know, and you don't wanna go out and necessarily go running. It's hard to get motivated. I don't feel that way at all with this. the light, you know, you're like, it's like I said, it's like when you're a little kid and you would just get up and you're like, okay, I'm ready to play, let's rock. And that's what happened to my body. I just started to feel better. I never felt like that with the medicine. With the medicine, I can roll back over and sleep for another five hours, which wasn't benefiting me. It wasn't practical or decent sleep. It was just, I don't know, escaping reality. Maybe, I don't know. I know, I'm not a completely...

I'm not a medical doctor. I just know that my sleep patterns were better. My moods were better. Everything was better. And I'm like, okay. And it wasn't a pill. So I didn't feel sort of, my sex life wasn't affected anymore. And the other thing is, is that you use something for a long time and then suddenly it's not working the same. So you have to up your dose. And then the doctor goes, Well, let's try this one.

So then you have to wean yourself off of medicine, and then you wean yourself back on a medicine. That's a lot of monkey business.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (34:35)

Does it feel like you become an experiment?

Gail Miller (34:39)

Yeah. And the hardest part is that it's great if you have a doctor that you trust and that your medical system is good. But man, I can tell you right now, that's not always the case at all. My daughter, for example, as a female, had some female issues, and she went in to get a pap smear done, and they're like, No, we don't do that now every year. We just do it. And she's like, But I had a bad result, and they finally cleared my system. You did. And she said, Well, it's in my chart. Nobody read the chart. The doctors and the nurse practitioners and everyone are so, so stressed out and so overworked, and so they're not even taking the time to go, I have this young person in front of me, and these are the issues. So you have to advocate for yourself, but you don't have a roadmap, you don't have parents. I don't know what it is, but there's no way to go, okay, here's my checklist. Now, doc, this is this and this and this and this. So the doctor understands. So to me, that was shocking. It was...

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (36:04)

Yes, it's partly are the appointments very, short over there? they trying to cram this whole checkup and understanding into what five or 10 minutes?

Gail Miller (36:17)

Yeah, it's fast. There's a lot of nurse practitioners, and don't get me wrong, I have the utmost respect for nurses and nurse practitioners, huge. But if they're going to throw a lot on them, they can't handle it all. If you look at the nurses, they're working crazy hours. Just the nurses alone in a hospital, they're working crazy hours.

They're sitting around, they can't get any good food, they can't get out of there, and they're under lousy light. We sort of are trying to get this device for some nurses to try because you, but you go to the hospital administrators and you're like, we have something that might make them feel better. Bottom line, it's money. And I find that really disturbing. You know, like, no, we don't want to introduce this to somebody.

You know, it's this, it's this, it's like, look at your staff. They need.

Yeah, it's a really strange dynamic, and I don't like it. know, I'm like, these people represent you. Don't you think you ought to, you know, say, hey, this is available? We can do something to get it to you and at least try it. If it doesn't work, then don't use it. But I can't even imagine they put long, long hours, long shifts. And they have to be front and centre. Because if they miss something, they're usually the ones that get in trouble. So I don't know what the solution is, but it's... And I've heard it more and more lately, and I'm like, this is not good. It's not a positive thing.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (38:15)

The medical and health industries are in such a crisis in so many ways. And we are both not doctors, but we are women who have been patients, and we have families. And I'll tell you, I went into the hospital, but not for myself. And it was a couple of times in the last couple of years. And I can relate to so much of what you are saying because

Firstly, there was really just one little area to even get outside. And if you know where the benches are, then there's some light, but you can't open the window, and there is a lot less light inside. And I was really lucky that I knew literally, I think three to five types of food I could order over there that were even relatively healthy and real food.

I don't know if it's like that, what you are, but you're in a hospital to heal, and everybody is ordering fries. And I keep going back to fries on these podcasts, but you know, it just keeps coming up. But you know, it's just stunning to me that I think these places are not really set up for those.

Common sense solutions. I don't want to go into sound woo woo and say be all natural because yes, natural things are important, but just in general, the common sense things. It was easier to find a cup of jelly instead of just actual fruit.

Gail Miller (40:01)

It's unbelievable. It's crazy. So when I was in LEC, I also got the chickenpox, which I had never had as a child. I was vaccinated, I didn't. So and I went to a hospital in Austria, had four people, four people at all at one time in the room with me. they're laughing

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (40:09)

Right.

Gail Miller (40:24)

Because the doctor up in this little ski town said, You have herpes. And I went, Wow.

Yeah, the language translation. was like, my God, you know, and I'm so they threw me in an ambulance to ambulance rides down into this thing. And then the care was amazing. I mean, and the girls were laughing. They were laughing at me. They're like, you have the chickenpox, chickenpox. And I said, you know, I've never had this. But the first thing they did was they said, OK, you're good. We've got your medicine. Here it is. You have to go outside.

And I had to go outside and sit outside until my husband, they're like, you can't be anywhere around us. So then I went and stayed in a room for and this was before the human charger. So then I went and spent, you know, two weeks in a room, which was really kind of strange. But that was completely different from my experience when I had my hysterectomy, and I had to spend the night in the hospital, where the bill was one hundred thousand dollars, or just under.

Yeah, yeah, it was, and that was not for the surgery. That was just for the night in the hospital. That was what they built. Yeah, it was absolutely insanity. It was crazy. I'm getting myself out of bed and walk into the bathroom, you know, and I'm like, something is very broken. But if I looked around at the nurses and the nurses’ station,

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (41:34)

for a night in the hospital.

Gail Miller (41:55)

They don't get out. They can't they can't leave their posts in order to even give themselves some good common sense, like, you know, get outside and if you work all night long and you do incredible long shifts at night and you go home, the last thing you wanna do is go outside and get some exercise and get some sunshine and that's what you really need for your sanity. So your system is completely whacked.

So now you have something that's portable that might help, I hope. They're talking about putting lights that are better in buildings and things like that. They're talking about doing that for pilots and stewardesses and things like that. But that's a tremendous expense. So.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (42:50)

And it's taking

time to set that up.

Gail Miller (42:53)

Yeah, and the best thing is that people just have to, you know, get a little decent food and get out and get some sunshine if you can. But you've got to have, you got to move and you got to have light. Otherwise, it's not so good because it'll affect your sleep.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (43:11)

So.

We definitely know that the ideal is to get sunshine and have better sleep, but things get in the way. And what we have seen is that the, the things that get in the way that can happen to any of us, because what I reflected on in the previous podcast conversation about this is that I was having some

day trips where I was on the train for three hours and then I might have some calls in a hotel for an hour or two and then I've basically spent a day inside kind of like what you're describing and then it's nearly dinner time and I barely got any light. And so on a normal day, on an ordinary day, I'll get out and have the balance. But if you are doing something different, then it's really hard. And I think that so many people have an equivalent of that

The work-from-home flexibility has changed quite a bit these days. And I'm hoping that when people do have the option to work from home, they can get out for five minutes or a 10 and then get back to what they are doing. Even, I loved using the MacBook in the backyard in a spot that is in the shade, in the shade, so it doesn't overheat, but you can do that.

Gail Miller (44:33)

Yeah, where you just see it.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (44:39)

On the days when you don't have a choice and you are in an office, or alternatively, when people are front-facing. And so it sounds like this device will be really accessible. People might be working in retail hospitality or those things actually. How many people working in hospitality have never worked in that field, but how many of those people are stressed out and miserable? It sounds like that energy boost could help so many people. And you told me that sleep makes such a difference for all of these things. It's really hard for people to get the sleep that I need. For me personally, my weird reality is that when I'm in the city near the beach, I get much better sleep. But when I am out in the suburbs, I just, maybe it’s environmental. I just don't sleep quite right. So

It's so, it's so odd. I think there's a bit less of the outdoors. Don't pop out doors as much, and things are built differently. It's something like that, I suppose. Maybe the air as well. But, but you do travel a lot and you've seen that there's, there's work that just requires a bit more travel and you need to feel switched on and alert.

Gail Miller (46:04)

Well, if we go back to the caveman days, our whole world functioned when there was light. And so it affected how we slept, when we slept. It affects light, which affects our hormones, melatonin, cortisol and everything that makes us feel better. And then it helps for women, helps fertility, metabolism, it helps everything. So it also is our cue.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (46:13)

Yes.

Gail Miller (46:33)

when we're up and when we sleep. So something little that can help.

It's super great. I think I mean, you have to, you gotta have, you gotta have a little bit of bright light in your life. And if you can't get it, that's a bummer because you're going to feel it. You know, so if you have something that you, you know, you sort of, I guess it's like brushing your teeth. You start to get used to it, put it on in the morning, you put it on, you punch it. And then, you know, for me, I could tell a major difference. And, my friends who use it consistently.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (46:53)

You will feel it.

Gail Miller (47:10)

That's what they can do. And I'm like, okay, so I have something that can help somebody. So how do you tell people? How do you say, try it? And if it works, super great. I mean, I think it's important. We've got to help each other. We absolutely have to help each other.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (47:27)

Yes.

What I admire about how you are spreading the word is that you're not making this a highly exclusive elite thing. You are introducing this to the nurses, the flight attendants, anyone, because I can tell you want everybody to be okay.

Gail Miller (47:47)

Yeah, well, I mean, at least in the in United States, there's enough people on so many so many antidepressants. This is horrible. It's horrible to feel rotten and and and lousy and you don't feel good and you don't know what's wrong. And that's just awful. You know, I don't wish that on anybody. So, you know, a little something that will help somebody. Let's do it, man. Whatever it takes. It's like giving somebody something to eat. Come on, give somebody an apple, make them feel better.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (48:26)

Yes. And we're not giving medical advice. I'll really reassure that everybody talk to the doctor that you trust, but beyond that, ask questions and alongside whatever the doctor said or in alignment with what feels right with the medical advice, it helps to try something extra. I

It's coming to me now that I knew of some people who were taking antidepressants of some sort, and it was making them put on a lot of weight.

Gail Miller (49:06)

Yeah, that'll do it. Definitely do it. And then that just adds insult to injury. You're like, come on, man. So then I'm going to pop the latest pill, and that's not going to last. And then that's going to cause all sorts of stuff. Maybe something that's as simple as a little bit of light. That's really, you know, we're not talking about rocket science. The other thing I know from doctors is that, like in the US,

You know, they always had reps going to the doctor's offices with the latest, greatest. This is the pill. So give this to your right. And I'll get and I'll feed your office, or I'll do this. And then they sort of tried to taper that down. I don't know if it's still going on or whatever, but a doctor goes to school and they get educated on only so much. Right. And then things are always changing and evolving.

They can't possibly be up on the latest and greatest all the time, especially if it's something as simple as this. So it's a big thing to say there is other things. And you hope that you have a doctor that is going, what else is there for my clients that they care? Unfortunately, in the US, because of insurance and that debacle that we're having,

You know, the insurance companies are saying, well, you can do this, this and this.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (50:34)

What sorts of things are they saying you can do?

Gail Miller (50:37)

Like

we can't, we won't pay for this for your client. We won't do this and this. This isn't anything that's complicated. This is an alternative to make your client feel better that you can recommend or don't, or maybe your client can discover it on their own, but it's a little something and somehow the word has to get out to help them.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (50:59)

This

This is why I am really interested in what we have to call the wellness communities. And this isn't necessarily a common growing kale as close that would be, but this is the spaces where people have freedom to have conversations like this beyond the highly regulated spaces. What you're describing was the insurance. There are some forms of insurance over here in Australia, to put it really simply.

There's a type of insurance where people were wondering if, as a comparison, art therapy and music therapy would stop being covered, but then other therapies were continuously covered. And it's some sort of logic about the evidence or research. I don't really know how they decide that, but

But I think that what you are to bring it back to the human charger here at a minimum, we can see that you do get the clarity, and people talk about the nervous system. If using this thing for a bit can even maybe calm your nervous system, you feel more reassured, and the light is giving you something, then why not?

Let me know if you agree. Why not use something like this alongside trying whatever people want to try? Why do we have to pick and choose?

Gail Miller (52:36)

Yeah.

Well, we shouldn't have to. We should. And everybody's different. So, you know, the little of this, a little of that, and you sort of find your balance. But you don't have to wean on and off of this like like you would a drug. But if you figure a sunny day is one hundred thousand lux of light, and if you don't have a sunny day, it's ten thousand. This gives you the same thing. And I'm like, OK, so I'm getting my blast of sunshine.

And everybody's all excited, know, kids at spring break. It's all spring break. Let's go. Let's go to the beach because they need that that light and they crave it. So now you can just have your light and take it with you, and hopefully make people feel better. mean, it's it's it's I don't think it's overly complicated. I just.

You know, just whatever would make people feel better. It's we got to help each other. I don't know. I really, you know, like I said, this was not my thing. I was like, what I didn't believe it was gonna work, and it worked amazingly and every one of my friends and and colleagues and Olympians and people that I gave it to, they're like, wow

So that to me was like, OK, so it isn't just me. It is helping people. It's not 100 % cure, but man, something makes people better.

Let's share it.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (54:13)

Okay. You mentioned something that I should have given more time and attention to. You said that Olympians are using this. That sort of thing could nearly become a headline. Let's give that attention for a second, because I know what it's like to come from a field of expertise where you take it for granted and it's your normal, but you, too, work with Olympians, and that's your normal everyday life. But to everybody else, that's a big

thing. So you're saying that Olympians are using this and it's helping them.

Gail Miller (54:44)

Yeah, so we have a couple of ski racers. We have a world championship ski racer. And I've known this guy since he was a kid. And he agreed to try it. And he's Austrian. He and his sister agreed to try it after their auntie tried it. An auntie is very tough, Austrian, ex-Austrian ski team. She's a woman who can do anything.

And she and I thought she'll never try this. There's no way. And she first used it to fly back from Austria to Michigan to visit a friend. And she said, for the first time, I didn't have any jet lag, and I didn't have the sometimes it affects your stomach. I guess some people, their their bowels get all blocked up and they get all constipated. Yeah. So jet lag has all sorts of wild symptoms.

Yeah, it affects your gut. So she said, No, I had none. And then she came back. She told her husband and she sort of, you know, she's like, then they flew from Austria to Peru and height. She did both. They were like unbelievable. So she did this little cute little video and stuff. then we she gave it to her to her niece and her nephew who were on the Austrian ski team and unbelievable. They love the results. No jet lag. It also helps them hyper-focus, which was one of the things about it. That's why Gary likes it most, is he puts it on in the morning, and he can just go right into work and just focus. So they loved that, but Rafael Hausserman, he just had an incredible year, world championship. He got second in the Han and Kham, which is a huge famous ski race. And then ⁓ he crashed and hurt his jaw. And he had to go from the ski race he was at to get surgery and then get the fake teeth put in and do all this work. Then he had to fly to the United States for the last year of the race. And he had exactly one day.

And normally, lose a day per time zone that you cross when you fly with these things, or when you fly. He flew all the way from Austria to Sun Valley, Idaho, and one day of training, and then he got, I think he got second. So these are Olympic amazing athletes that are going, wow.

And slowly the word is getting out. And you know, we know the ski world, so that's a little bit different. But trying to get it out to others, we're working on it. We're working on football players and some football teams. Keep your fingers crossed. So far, so good.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (57:52)

Yes.

It's nice. It's nice to see the crossover is between different professions because I should really acknowledge that because I'm in Australia, I don't see skiing. I don't see all of that. However, I do see people pushing themselves for all sorts of work. And for me, the thing that translated quite a bit was the travel, especially because I'm in what is called a regional city that feels like a small town, and I'm reconnecting with the main city, and whether it's that or so some people over here will do a similar commute, but also people like to travel a lot. So the travel is definitely a part of it for me, but the Olympic skiing, that's very significant because either way, even aside from the skiing part, they are travelling to different countries. And I think that it's great to see that the world is opening up a lot more now. We've had a couple of years post-COVID of getting out there. We weren't travelling for a while, and now we are, but we wanted to really make the most of it. And the world is becoming so global, especially as people have online personal brands, people are connecting brands with other spaces a bit more than when we were staying at home, perhaps. And so for reasons like that, it's really important, but even just knowing that you are working with people who are doing a form of high performance, that's really significant. And so you're translating that to the footballers and so on. And it sounds like the common thread is people want to do more than what their minds and bodies are letting them, and literally just giving ourselves more light. It's empowering people to then create the value and experiences that we all want to create.

Gail Miller (1:00:13)

It's kind of ridiculous. It's such a simple thing that you almost, for a while, I was like, you know, I sound ridiculous because it's just light. It's not very complicated. But you're like, but it's really missing in a lot of people just because the way our lives are. You got your screens, you're in bad light, whatever. And no matter what people do, it doesn't matter if you're an Olympian.

Or an executive or a mom, you want to feel better because you have to do the best you can. So you just need a little help, it’s kind of nice. I mean, I don't know what it's like to drive across Australia, but I do know that one thing that I love about the human charger, ⁓ like in America, like if you're driving in Michigan and you drive from one end to the next, it's like five or six hours.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (1:00:52)

Yes.

Wow.

Gail Miller (1:01:11)

That's one state. I mean, you're a huge country. When you start to get, know, when you're driving along in your car and you start to go, and you get that sort of, I better pull in and get a cappuccino or an espresso or something, or Red Bull or whatever you're going to do. That's when we put the human charger in, and we've done it. And I've tried to track when I can feel it starting to work, and I can't, I can never.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (1:01:24)

Yes.

Gail Miller (1:01:39)

Because you're right? And I put the button on, and then in about 15 minutes, suddenly you're up and you're trying to put your finger on when that happened. It's not like an espresso where you're like, and then you have the shakes. You're just suddenly awake again. It's so weird. It's really weird. I'm so excited for you to get it. I'm really excited.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (1:01:41)

It's gradual.

Gail Miller (1:02:05)

Because if you have

Gail Miller (1:02:06)

A long haul, you're not going to believe it. You're going to be like, This is weird. It's really sweet.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (1:02:11)

And I hope, I know we booked in for an hour, but I hope you have five or 10 more minutes because I'm getting these ideas. Okay, awesome. And I'll chop that bit out, but you mentioned the Red Bull and the caffeine. We are really identifying the big issues here because people do get sluggish. Some people on a long work day of any sort they are resorting to any of those quick fixes to get their energy. And to be fair,

Gail Miller (1:02:16)

Yeah. Yeah.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (1:02:40)

I love my coffee. I want to be the Lorelei of Newcastle, but you can't rely on that all day. And some people don't like the taste of coffee. So they go to the sugary drinks instead. The energy drinks. It's so bad for you. And if we can get light, having the same impact or a better impact, and people are skipping the sugar, that is going to help their health.

Gail Miller (1:03:08)

I know, monster drinks and this and that. And, know, I'm like, come on, yikes. And, or the little five-hour energy, you know, okay, I get it. But like cramming for a test and stuff, it's like, why don't you try this? Cause then if you're, if you're, you're on that and you're, and you take your, power drink and you get your rush, right. But if you crash before you have to be done with whatever you're doing, but sometimes that's brutal. And I know that kids are getting hurt and sometimes ending up in the hospital. They're mixing alcohol with these power drinks. You're just like, okay, man, come on, this is crazy. So yeah, I would agree. My son was in pilot school in Salt Lake, and I'm begging him, would you just try this thing? Would you just...

I sent you one. Can you just try it? Because you're waking up at four in the morning, driving an hour to the airport, and then flying in the dark, just give it a try. Eventually, he was like, Wow. And he liked to use it before he would get tested. And he said, I could focus in. And my son was like, he loves his Red Bull and all this stuff. He goes, I still like my bad drinks.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (1:04:08)

Try it.

Gail Miller (1:04:35)

which I never allowed in the house until he had to get that on his own, because that wasn't in my home. But he's like, it worked. And he said it helped me focus without the jitters. And when you're a pilot, you got to land a plane. You kind of need that. So I was kind of excited. I was like, wow. So now can you just cut out the really power drinks or at least reduce them down to something a little reasonable? I mean.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (1:05:03)

This

 This is going to help anyone to even build their own presence, because I came from a public speaking background, and I believe that with how the economy is now, everybody needs to learn that and to do that in whichever spaces are possible. And looking at my long-term history, a decade ago in my twenties, when I was really getting my reps up, presenting and practising presenting heaps, I actually, there were some moments I was travelling across this state, and I think I must've got a bit sluggish. And so I was having, I think from memory, gummy bears. It was a whole lot of gummy bears.

It's so funny because I adore those photos of the days in my mid twenties when I was basically, hello everybody. And I was so wound up with candy. People called me the energizer bunny, like a battery. That is not sustainable. I was so unhealthy. And now, as I'm trying to meet people and connect in community more now, it has to be healthy and sustainable because I'm 36 and there'll be so many people in a situation like mine where they want to spread the word about what they do. And they might not be 19. And frankly, no matter what age you are, you shouldn't be relying on all this sugar. A bit, we can't control what other people do, but we need a healthy alternative. And light is, I think, you are bringing attention to the difference that light can make.

Gail Miller (1:06:54)

It's like I said, it's really straight, it's almost ridiculous. It's almost like it's just light. That's what we need. Yeah, it's really, it affects so many of our systems and makes them run smoothly versus putting something in our body, you know, like a drink or I don't know, whatever else you want to put in your body. I mean, I am from Aspen. knew what

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (1:07:20)

crucial.

Gail Miller (1:07:23)

made people go all night long, but that was a little different back in the day. nevermind, you know.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (1:07:27)

What was it?

Okay, it was serious enough. You can't say it on a podcast.

Gail Miller (1:07:34)

No, no, no. It was like cocaine. I people wanted to go all night long. I'm like, well, OK, well, just put a little light in your ear and you can rock on all night long and have your energy. You don't need to put something else in your body. I just, I'm like, OK, so it's simple, it's it's it's simple and healthy and not dangerous. And I'm like, wow, OK. And what I like about it is

I don't crash. I don't have a sugar crash. ⁓ I've always been someone who can drink a cup of coffee and then go to sleep. So that was never an issue. But when I go to bed, I'm just, good night. Lights are out, and then it's up again. And that's huge. I wish that for everyone, that good sleep and that feeling that you had when you were a kid. think it's like, wow, can we just go back to that?

Be nice.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (1:08:35)

Yes. And sorry for the tissues, by the way, I'll edit that out. ⁓ You don't get it, look, I want to end with a call to action. And I appreciate that we have taken extra time because light is so simple. What I appreciate about this product and the focus on light is that everybody will have different preferences for food and different, you'll access different foods at different times will have different amounts of time outside or indoors. And a lot of variables will happen, but if we can bring some light back to ourselves, and I'm guessing this thing, it would last a while. It would have probably a couple of years or more of life, this device.

Gail Miller (1:09:32)

So we have people that are calling us after six years, and we just took on the distribution, and all they're asking for is these little things. It comes with these little ear things in different sizes, so you can stick them on. I don't know if you can see it, but it's.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (1:09:42)

AirPods. I like AirPods.

It's like a little rubber cover.

Gail Miller (1:09:49)

Yeah, so that we have different sizes. comes with it, and you can you you just put the charger in you plug it in like you would your cell phone or whatever, so that you can recharge the battery but they're going on six years for this little teeny tiny thing and they're like, no, it's still going but I need some more of these because these fall off. I am like a bull in a china shop. I'm really tough on things, and so I just put a little bit of glue and glued my little ear things on, so they don't, because sometimes if you pull them wrong, they'll fall off, and then you'll lose them. Kind of like when your earbuds fall out of your head. But there are no magnets, so you don't have to worry about any of that weird stuff where it's frying your brain or you don't want to do that. There's nothing. This is so simple and so safe. And people will just think you're listening to music. It's just like, it's...

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (1:10:43)

It's literally just light.

Gail Miller (1:10:48)

As simple as it gets, it's like you're turning on your sunshine for 12 minutes. And if you need a little more, you know, like, need another, I need another hour for my tan and press the button and off you go. So it's a, it's a really simple thing. Really easy. Like I said, I'm really glad I found it because I can't even imagine, you know, especially when I went from, you know, Portugal to Austria. Now I'm in Germany, finding another doctor going through all that, now, and shifting countries, medications and things like that. It's like well, I have this and it's working and it's holding steady, and so my friends that are using it. It's holding steady. So I'm like, okay, maybe we got something that will help people and make them happy

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (1:11:44)

It's a continuity. So call to action at the end of this right now. Are you only distributing to the U.S.? Where can people get one of these? Where can someone get a human charger anyway?

Gail Miller (1:11:58)

⁓ You can get it humancharger.com. You can get it humancharger.us.

But we're working on Australia. We're trying to help them because we'd like to have it distributed

I'm sure we can just send it. I mean, it's humancharger.com or human. I'm gonna have to have Gary tell you exactly how to get that part and how to get it or get it through you or something.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (1:12:27)

Absolutely. Right now, even if I can be a link between everybody else and you and Gary, I'm happy to be that link in any way. And so people need to try that charger, and until you can get a human charger, and in between, and to keep the common sense going as well, of course, get some sunlight when you can. But if anyone is having work or travel or other issues like hospital or being inside a lot for whatever reason, or maybe seasonal depression, then definitely keep an ear out, pardon the pun, to get the human charger.

Gail Miller (1:13:12)

Yeah, it's really unbelievable. like, we're pretty clear. If it doesn't work, then we'll take it back. But you want you to, and you've got to, you know, it's kind of like anything. It's kind of like, you know, I want to lose some pounds. Well, I got to walk every day or whatever it is. You have to use it consistently, and then you get the best results. It's, know, I got to brush my teeth every day. Well, I got to put my human charger on every morning. And then in the afternoon when I'm, you know, having my lunch or something, I pop it on. People are thinking I'm rocking out to tunes or something like that, but it's not; it lasts forever. This thing just doesn't, it doesn't break down. doesn't, I'm like, wow, that's pretty good. I thought that was rather nice. It's, yeah, you know, cause the last thing, I mean, I don't wanna get taken for a ride, as they say.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (1:13:59)

It is.

Gail Miller (1:14:08)

For me, it's got to last and it's got to work. And it does both those things for me, which is why we said, hey, let's do something with this, see if we can't help people.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (1:14:19)

We're doing something with this. I'm going to stretch the word so much. Look, thank you so much for helping so many people with this.

Gail Miller (1:14:21)

Yeah, it was really fun. Yeah. yeah!

Well, we're trying. Thank you for helping us spread the news or the information because it's really amazing. I hope that people start to go, okay, yeah, this can help.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (1:14:43)

Absolutely.