Transcript

Nino Vincenzo (00:00)

I you we had 80 degree weather and it was very cool for a normally hotter weather. And then we've been getting this tropical sort of feeling the last couple of days, which is very unusual for Southern California, but

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (00:00)

Thank

we had some floods, so you were having some cool and we're having floods. I think it's a bit of a cold year.

Nino Vincenzo (00:22)

Well, know, the weather is just definitely changing. I don't know how people can kind of, know, prove global warming because the weather is just not what it used to be. So I'll let the world figure that one out and just deal with whatever works.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (00:38)

Something is going on, that's for sure. So.

Nino Vincenzo (00:40)

I also know

you do public speaking, you coach public speaking. I actually taught that for a very, very long time at a design college in Los Angeles. It went under the moniker of effective speaking, but basically I would teach the students how to prepare a presentation with a hook and a preview. I tell you, really taught me a lot about the psychology of fear.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (00:44)

Yes.

Yes.

Nino Vincenzo (01:09)

I worked at a design college where most of wanted to be artists, but yet they couldn't go up. They were terrified of giving a five minute presentation. So it was quite, you know, really interesting to watch that unfold about how people are just, I think it's getting worse. mean, people don't have the need to really communicate effectively and it would scare the bejesus out of them. So I'd have to keep it very lighthearted, crack jokes.

⁓ because they were just terrified. said, I would tell them the better organized you are, the less nervous you'll be making about the work and not you. But I had saw that you would coach that and I thought how ironic I did that for a long time.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (01:56)

It's great to know that you taught that as well. And I had the same experience. I was training a lot more new speakers in the last couple of years. And I learned that more recently as well, that people are simply scared because I'm so used to talking. It's fun for me and I just enjoy it. But when people are new to it, we all know that it's apparently feared more than death.

Nino Vincenzo (02:03)

Lose it.

Yeah, yeah, it was picked as one of the, because I would give them a handout and, you know, and I did some research about statistics and they were saying it's probably one of the most stressful things ⁓ a person can go through is giving a presentation. You know, they'd rather face, you know, an army of, I don't know, crazy people than go up there and give a few minute presentation. So it was really kind of interesting to see them unfold.

Some of them were brilliant. They would go up there and I think they had a natural nap. Maybe perhaps they were performers in the past or cheerleaders or anybody that's used to performing. ugh, it would kind of hurt my feelings because I'm like, I've got to make these kids do this presentation to get a grade and I'm watching them completely collapse. But I did enjoy it. I mean, it was ⁓ painful sometimes, but at least I taught them how to organize the presentation.

which was part of the curriculum.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (03:27)

did you help them to structure and organize their ideas for a presentation?

Nino Vincenzo (03:32)

I mean, basically I had sort of a format. You know, there was a textbook that went along with it, although I'm not big on textbook stuff, but I did sort of take stuff out. The importance of a hook in the beginning, a story, tell them your story, how did you get involved with this? And then it would move into a preview of what I'm going to go over with a summary and conclusion. they always, and I had a rubric that I graded them.

So there was a performance aspect of it and then how well did you organize your presentation? And then there would be an introduction, like I said, a preview. The introduction was kind of tricky because I said the best way to get an audience hooked is to tell them a story, you know, or ask a question, a statistic. How many of you know and then go around the room and so, for example, how many of you have credit card debt? You know, all our hands go up.

and then you sort of engage them and then the preview of what you're going to go over. I basically had them go over three points with supporting evidence and then a summary and conclusion. ⁓ But the summary would be different than the conclusion. But that was textbook effective speech giving. and because it was a design college, I thought it was important to teach this class. They had to take general studies, so.

one of the class, I said, what good is it if you could design something if you can't present it to someone? How are you gonna sell it? So I taught that in other classes for a very long time.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (05:07)

feel inspired by what you're telling me because I heard from an art teacher a day ago and, and that person was really focused on teaching people art and art as a therapy. However, I'm now saying that people do need to talk about what they create. Even if it's something that they might've created privately, they're then presenting it to the public to provide it, whatever that might be.

Yeah, absolutely.

Nino Vincenzo (05:38)

I do think that communication is changing. I obviously with the advent of, you know, cell phones and I retired from teaching about six years ago and I could see the new generation coming in. There was a lot of reasons why I decided to get out of it. There was a lot of college politics and everything else, but I did realize that this new crop that was coming in, I don't know what generation it was, X, Z.

I don't know which one it was, but I just couldn't get to them like I used to. Everything was... What's that?

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (06:10)

What changed?

What changed?

Nino Vincenzo (06:15)

I just didn't think ⁓ the wanting to be there, you know, the interest, the fire in the eyes, the lack of really even wanting to try, you know. There was something different about the new group coming in. And I had taught for 19 years, so I had seen different groups of students coming in every quarter. But this last crop, it was the worst I've ever seen as far as the actual work. They were just more terrified.

about effective. Because I don't think a lot of them are, you know, they can communicate over the phone texting, but to get up in front of their peers, I believe was even more terrifying. As you know, you're looking, you know, the same amount, the same age group in the audience. And that terrified them. And I just felt that something was not the same. They weren't even laughing at my good jokes. I was like, something's off here, you know? So.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (06:45)

Mosquitoes.

So

it disconnected. Have you seen that perhaps the younger people are less comfortable to even talk on the phone compared to doing a text? Because that's what I've heard that they want to text and they will barely even accept a phone call these days.

Nino Vincenzo (07:31)

Yeah, and I also think that we have to realize that maybe older folks, I'm a baby boomer and I hate labels of any kind, but we did grow up in a different environment. We had to communicate. So as much as the older ones are criticizing the younger people, I kind of always approach things from the middle way. It's very Buddhist, I suppose, the middle way. Like we have to adapt. Whether it's good or bad,

I'm leaning bad because it's taken away the organic nature of being able to just communicate with someone. So I think education has to adapt to this. Maybe communication is changing. ⁓ I'm not an expert, but from my experiences, which is I think is part of being an expert, you have to experience something to teach it, you know, that it is changing. And I don't know if it's for the better. Maybe I'm too old school, but.

You know, it was difficult getting them to realize the importance of having a conversation. And then the other part of me, because maybe I was trying to be a good critical thinker, is are we not adapting to their needs? Is this the new form of communication? I don't know.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (08:46)

Don't think it's just about your generation or my generation being old. Now I believe that human beings evolved to interact with each other face to face. I think it's how we're built. It has to be. And you said that you had that experience what six years ago that fascinates me because it's really common to say that there was more of a disconnect after the pandemic, but it sounds like that was happening.

before the pandemic.

Nino Vincenzo (09:18)

Yes, and you know, my sister is currently a professor of psychology and she finds the same problem. You know, I've been out of the game for a while. When I say game, the educational platform. You know, I was more of an organic teacher. I liked engaging with students and now everything's online. But I do notice that the younger, like you go to a party, everybody whips out the phone. You know, they just retreat and go in the corner. So I did see a difference.

in the quality of the student. didn't think they were that engaged. And especially when it came to public speaking, they were worse. It just seemed like they were worse than the previous years that I had. So there was a new generation coming in because it was a first year elective course. So I thought, you know, that and a lot of other reasons with modern day education, I just thought it was time for me to get out. And it's a pity because I do think like you do, maybe it has nothing to do with getting older.

I just think it's scary when we can't communicate, when people are having relationships with AI, know, chat GPT. And I get it that we have to progress as a species. But I also think that we're losing our sense of, I don't know, that that was called your nature, like you said, where we were born to communicate. And maybe it's changing and maybe we have to change, but

It's kind of an interesting debate and the exploration into are we not adapting as educators or is this the sign of the times that maybe we're moving into a new form of communication where no one talks, I don't know.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (11:04)

think there's room for both. In my recent experience, I just started this podcast about a week ago and it's, it's so new, but you are the fifth recording that I have. have another one right after you. So many people I got, I got about 11 or 12 bookings within a week. They were all coming through into my calendar to

Nino Vincenzo (11:13)

Wow.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (11:33)

have these conversations. Some have been in America, some in Australia. It was just whoever, whoever wants to have a chat. And it's a conversation. It's having the courage and the openness to share ideas. The person

Nino Vincenzo (11:46)

Sure.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (11:48)

before you received an Emmy years ago. And my first conversation was with someone who previously owned a successful therapy business. So I'm finding all these people who have all different experiences.

And they all just want to explore how can we be okay? And how can we create a good quality of life? That's why I was interested in your story because you had some great adversity and I saw the story about what you experienced years ago and you're welcome to talk about that if you want to. And I

Nino Vincenzo (12:23)

Yeah.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (12:25)

think that I think we need more opportunities for people to hear about how to basically find that

courage and get out of our comfort zones in any way.

Nino Vincenzo (12:36)

Yeah, well for me, the first book I wrote was sort of a memoir, you know, but I'm not dead yet, so it can't be a real long memoir. It was a memoir of a certain period in my life. And it came through journaling, you know, the name of the book is From Rock to Water. ⁓

And it's a story about my twin brother and I coming to LA trying to seek fame and glory. And we did. We did put a dent in it. And my brother suddenly accidentally had an overdose ⁓ at 35 years old. And it just completely devastated me. I just completely went into a spiral of doubt and questioning.

And I was up on a mountaintop hiking in LA and I was saying, why me? Why did this happen to me? And I heard a voice come over me and say, look back at your life. I've been there always. Cause I was feeling forsaken. Why have you left me? Why? This is not what I wanted. And it just crashed all my dreams. I lost all sense of ambition. I was very driven when I first came to LA. So I wanted people to read this story because

It's a collection of short stories of my life, not per se about me, but about these memories that were coming through. I don't know if it was spirit or, you know, my brother had anything to do with it up there, but it was all these stories about my life and that all these life lessons that I had learned. And it helped me overcome the grief that in meeting some really crazy Qigong teachers. I don't know if you're familiar with Qigong. I met a gentleman who just completely changed.

my life in some ways ⁓ through the energy practice and meditation. And it was also struggling with depression. And because of my bodybuilding background, thought guys could probably relate to it as well. You know, I said in the book, the only tough guys I know are in jail or in the graveyard, that if you need help, that if you're having mental, you know, problems like depression, and I certainly was guilty of not getting the help early on, I had to figure it out my own.

So I just wrote a collection of short stories about my journey through that. ⁓ Childhood stories, ⁓ things that happened to me. I didn't know why it was all flooding through me. And I said, I got to get this on paper. And it eventually led to ⁓ the memoir, From Rock to Water. And then I wrote something years later, recently, that was just sort of a satirical view of life and society and government and education. ⁓

and not caring about the woke crowd. I was just like, hey, I'm gonna write something funny, sort of like George Carlin, you know, sort of making fun of things. ⁓ But the journey from rock to water was really sort of a metaphor for what I was going through. You all the things that I had built up as a man, a physicist, even ambition, everything just went out the window when my brother went. And it was very difficult. It wasn't an easy time for me, but I survived it.

And people that have bought it have said some beautiful things about the book. They said, you know, really helped me. A lot of people were very sad and wanting to hug me. I'm like, I'm okay. It was just sort of ⁓ short stories concerning my life. And I didn't realize how there was this sort of mystical play in my life. Like there was times when sort of divine intervention was there and it helped me, you know, process the grief.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (16:18)

There was a divine intervention.

Nino Vincenzo (16:21)

Well, I mean, think there was something, something. It's the first time that I actually felt, you know, spirit. And then when I met this Qigong teacher, there's a chapter in how I met him. ⁓ you know, it was just amazing. You know, it was one of these experiences that completely altered me in ways that I could hardly express, and I did the best I could in the book. ⁓

It was very strange and I ended up studying with him for a very long time. And then I taught it for a while and it was amazing. I just think I was supposed to meet him for some reason. And it was sort of synchronicity because a friend of mine had called. I write about all these synchronicities in the book. It talks about how my friend Nancy called me and said, my friend Chris is in town and she had mentioned him years ago and I was like, who? And she knew that I needed help.

So she said, remember the guy I told you about that does energy sessions? I don't like when people call themselves healers, sorry. I don't think you're a healer. I think you're facilitating something that heals. You're not the healer. So when people say they're healers, personally, I've studied with some really incredible folk. Quite bizarre, and the experiences I've had. And they never once called themselves healers.

but they healed people. Somehow the energy sort of shifted. So I decided to write a book as a memoir.

into surviving grief and that's what I did. I just thought I'd write it all down and it was pouring out of me, which is catharsis, you know, like catharsis and away from my healing.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (18:12)

Getting your story out helped you to heal and to process. Was it partly about piecing the puzzle together and understanding the journey that you had had?

Nino Vincenzo (18:23)

Right? Yes. Yes. And it was looking back at the journey that was just unfolding. Cause you know, you have a tendency to forget the past, know, a famous act just once said, the key to happiness is good health and a bad memory. You know, I needed to go back and it was coming to me. was having these dreams about my childhood. And mind you, I was doing a lot of energy work at the time. I was working very closely with my teacher and

there's this connection that he can connect you to. And I went right in and it was just pouring through me. And most artists have those sort of, ⁓ you it's not you doing it, it's just coming through. So it made me go back in the past and realize, yes, I, you know, I was looked out after, whether you call it God or whatever you pray to, there was moments in my life because I felt so forsaken, you know, why are you doing this to me?

⁓ So I think going back and telling stories about my youth sort of gave me hope that life's gonna be okay, that you survived, you're telling the story. ⁓ And all the stories have a different sort of ending that supposedly has a life lesson to it. If the readers can pick up.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (19:45)

That's great.

Nino Vincenzo (19:45)

so

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (19:48)

going to guess and assume and trust that the young people today will be having their own challenges and they might not know how to talk about it because like we said, young people don't know how to talk about all sorts of things. So we have an opportunity to share the wisdom at least through your story and through others. I'm wondering what advice would you give to young people now who might be having their moment of saying,

Why have you forsaken me to the universe?

Nino Vincenzo (20:21)

That's a great question. You know, I think it takes courage to say that you need help. ⁓ It's not going to come from a machine or a chat GPT. You know, they're going to tell you what you want to hear to make you feel better. And most teachers will give you that dose of, whether it's a therapist, they'll give you that dose of tough love.

So you have to be willing to suffer in a way to get the help that you need, you know, and you need to go out there and find it. Once you, you know, what's the saying, you know, when the student is ready, the teacher shall appear. It happened to me. I'm at a gift to teacher, but I think kids nowadays that feel lost should, you know, in a way maybe older people without.

The selective older people that are not bitter. You you get elderly folks that are sort of bitter about life. Man done me wrong, woman done me wrong, life done me wrong. I think if you can meet some mentors who don't have an agenda that are willing to help you, but toughen you up a little bit. I think that's important. And I'm not talking about abuse. Tough love, a little tough love never hurt anyone.

So I think young people need to be less sensitive, more resilient, look to the elders like in tribal communities, there was this sense of go to the elders, the wise man, but you have to pick the wise man who's not bittered by life, that can share his experiences and tell them they're gonna be okay. I think removing fear of...

you know, what's going to happen, you know, and part of my job, and I talk about it in my book, you know, I was a pretty good academic teacher. That's another story. I, could do four podcasts on how I got into teaching another synchronistic moment, because I didn't start off as a teacher. It was weird. And I talk about it in my book. And I think young people, part of my job as a, as a teacher, a professor, whatever was I went off the book a lot.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (22:20)

Sounds good.

Nino Vincenzo (22:37)

I was popular, I won three awards for outstanding faculty and these people with PhD hated me. They didn't understand why I kept winning the awards. And I knew how to connect to the students through humor, ⁓ short stories, encouragement, know, telling them all this stuff you're learning. And sometimes I would get in trouble because the school would find out they're saying, what are you teaching in these classrooms? I'm saying find yourself, be independent and find you.

not your mom and daddy, not the institution you're learning at, go and find you. And everything you've done that you think is bad, I've done better, worse, and I'm still here. And they would laugh and laugh and I would make them laugh and that's when I would get them. And certainly I taught the material that was given to me, whether it be critical thinking, I taught ethics, speaking. ⁓

I would just try to get them to think for themselves, if I could say anything. It's just to get them to think without the advent of being influenced. This whole influencer thing bothers me. Nobody's influencing me. And I do hope in some ways we don't lose that sort of natural tendency to find yourself. And let's face it, being a young person at any era is difficult.

It's the transitions. I was telling my sister the other day, said, you know, stress never really goes away. It just changes seasons. You know, you got your stress in your 20s and in your 30s, it becomes some other stress that your 40s, it's your health or 50s, it becomes your parents' health. So you got to learn to surf and ride the waves of, it's never going away. It's hopefully you've learned to cope with it better.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (24:31)

It sounds like people are struggling to live with discomfort, safe discomfort in all sorts of ways, like stepping up and doing better quality work or dealing with the stress of life or even talking in front of a group. It sounds like the common thread in what you're saying is that people need to step into discomfort and sort of just accept that.

Nino Vincenzo (25:01)

Yeah, I think it's not something I've mastered. I don't like change either, you know, but the only constant in life is change, you know, and you have to be ⁓ comfortable in feeling uncomfortable. So I would tell my students, like if they're giving a presentation, make it about the work that you're presenting. You're like a conduit to the message you're giving, whether you're selling something or not. Get you out of it.

Because I think what students were, and most people are afraid of speaking in public, they think they're being judged. So it takes a little training to say, I have nothing to do with this. You know, it's like when people say, I'm just a messenger, it's sort of the thing. They're not, people don't know you. And by the way, I used to tell students, you know, there's people in here that feel a lot of compassion for what you're going through. You thinking they're judging you is just your perception.

And I would stop them sometimes and ask the class, I'd say, how many of you feel bad for her right now? All their hands would go up. So in that unity of, I feel for you too. And I think it's rare to find an incredible speaker, although they're out there now, even with the advent of technology. But I'm talking, you know, the Martin Luther King speeches, the people that can really transmit not only words, but a frequency.

which is rare, to change people, to change the consciousness. I think I had that gift because I had a 19, 20 year career as a teacher and I was good at it. I'm like, what, me? You know, there was something going on and it was beyond the textbook. It was beyond the textbook. I was sort of like their, I don't want to say guru because that makes me feel a little uncomfortable. Yeah, well guru just means ⁓ light to the darkness.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (26:48)

You can.

Nino Vincenzo (26:55)

You know, it's got different connotations now, but even the Dean and my chairperson would say, I don't know what you do in class. You're like the Pied Piper. I said, girlfriend, I'm just keeping it real. Real with my students. And they loved me for it, you know, and I love them. Some of them, some of them were a bit entitled and I had to deal with that. But I think most of all was compassion. I told them it's okay that you don't know what you want to do when you're 20.

It's okay, go on an exploration. will tell them, just go out and intern somewhere. And I felt bad for them because so many of them were pressured by their parents to be this, to be that, or society. A lot of them were fashion designers. I said, you know the sexiest outfit you could wear is a good attitude and great communication skills. That's going to attract people if you can talk.

people. But again, my question, the dilemma is, is this the new form of communication? Is this what we're heading into where young kids are just, it's sad to me that they're not getting out and talking, they're on their phones. Even adults. I think the cell phone was the most incredible thing invented and the worst thing invented because it stops us from communicating with people.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (28:20)

Yeah, it's both because to me, think the issue is the way that people consume because we're having this conversation now across the globe and I'm seeing so many insights from you and it's great to use the phones and the Mac book, whichever devices for something like this, for more conversations. And absolutely, I completely agree that the in-person talking is irreplaceable.

And I'm glad you mentioned, I have a dream. I love those four words because there's, there has to be something about how it was said. It's four words and they just sink in so deeply. Every time you hear it, I have a dream. And this is why I think people still need what you do. People need you to, I hope you can keep teaching other people to teach people to talk.

Nino Vincenzo (29:05)

Yeah.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (29:19)

We need that everywhere because especially now you said that these young people were feeling pressured to become something and it would have definitely been their parents and also the phones or the social media on those phones that's telling them to become something. Even, even I have to drag myself out of that. And it's great that you

Nino Vincenzo (29:38)

Right.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (29:45)

grew before that era where we're expected to look like a Photoshop image at all times. We really are.

Nino Vincenzo (29:51)

Yeah. I think there was less pressure. I was talking to someone that was my age. I when I went to college, I don't care about age. I call it being seasoned. age doesn't matter. But we didn't have computers.

we had to sort of use our imagination. And I do think it was a purer time, but I don't want to sound like a flutty-dutty that's not adaptable to the new changes. But there was something organically natural that's missing now. Everything's sort of artificial to me. Texting, computer, influencers. It's a whole different ballgame out there. I think I also felt that why I got out of teaching was I was not keeping up. I didn't understand that.

I'm saying, how am going to teach these kids? I didn't grow up like they did, you know, on the phones. They have a laptop at seven, you know, eight years old. They're playing games on computers. I didn't grow up like that. how do I teach these kids? Or like I said earlier in our conversation, sadly, whatever your personal opinions are, do we need to change? Do we need to adapt to this new form of communication or lack thereof? I don't know. It's an interesting dilemma.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (31:04)

It's so fascinating because I like how these conversations go in any direction. And this is why I like not preparing for it. I knew you'd been a bodybuilder and you overcame things, but our top issue here is actually how we're relating to human beings and technology. It's crucial because it's shaping everything. think that technology isn't going away, whether we like it or not, it's here, but we're still human beings. And I wonder.

Nino Vincenzo (31:28)

here.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (31:33)

without deciding because I wouldn't impose my choice and decision on anyone. But what would happen if we were all just looking at screens instead of our fellow human beings? What would then happen next?

Nino Vincenzo (31:48)

Yeah, maybe lose our humaneness or maybe we're going to evolve into something that's different. I you know, you can yearn for the past, which, you know, in my generation, I grew up luckily in certain decades and I'm pretty hip. don't look at, know, when I was your age, you know, I never did that with my students or people in general. ⁓ The bodybuilding was just a metaphor. That was just another way of dealing with hurt. And I think we all look for it.

You know, to me it was just anger and frustration. I lost my father when I was young. But I always worked on my communication skills. And there's a lot of stereotypes, not just with women. There's men too. At the time, I'm not built like that anymore. I still train, but I train differently. I do a lot of energy work and yoga and swim. Nothing bulky as I age. you know, I got a lot of that, this guy can't speak in full sentences because he's a...

a dumb old brute. So I always promised myself, I just think it came from, I think great communicators are great readers. Do you agree with that?

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (32:58)

Readers, as in reading lots of books?

Nino Vincenzo (33:00)

Reading,

reading, ⁓ reading lots of books, reading. I think it's ingrained in you that if you read a lot, you have a tendency. And again, I don't want to generalize everyone, but I think the more you read, the better you are at articulating. And I mean, people are complaining to me that no one reads anymore.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (33:17)

It turns out

absolutely should. We should read. We should read. Sorry. I always read slowly. I think it's great that you're so informed and you have learned from the philosophies. And I just happen to read slowly, but I don't not read. But I think the other thing that really helps me is conversations. And you had all these conversations with your students that went beyond the textbooks.

And reading the book can be such a great starting point and we need those frameworks, especially these phones give us an endless stream of scrolling and a computer can end up with too many tabs open. There's an overload, but when you turn through a book, there's something focused and refined about that. Do you think so?

Nino Vincenzo (34:14)

Yes, I do. I do think that you know was at a party once and I could tell there was this helicopter mom who I could see that she's already Sort of programming the kid. I heard you're a teacher a professor I said well I do profess but I don't know what and I made a joke of it and she said what advice would you give? You know a mother with her children. I said Get him to read Get him the read get him to fall in love with reading or at least introduce them to reading don't force them to read

But get them into reading. I think magic happens. It stimulates the imagination. You become a very sexy wordsmith. You can pick and choose words. And I think it helps you overall as a communicator. That's my personal belief. For me, it was just escapism when I was a kid. I started with the Edgar Rice Burroughs and the Conan. That led to bodybuilding because I wanted to look like those characters I was reading about.

So that's when I got into bodybuilding. I wanted to actually look like some of the characters, ⁓ the heroes, the Frank Frazetta paintings. I don't know if you're familiar with his work, but... So that led to it. But I do think, and I hear a lot of authors on threads and everything complaining, I can't sell my book, nobody reads anymore. I still think people are reading. I just think that another form of communication is, and I'm even falling...

sort of victim to this. Nobody wants to read this. They want to this. Okay. So you have to, as a writer, adapt to the audience and get to the point and quick. And I think that's where writing in the realm of communication is changing. You you got to get to the point fast, because you know, you read an article online and it says, if you'd like to read more, you know, hit the button and it gives you the longer version. So I do think

we're all sort of falling into that new way of writing, which is very short, very to the point, no waffling, no extended stories, unless you're old school and you like those kind of writing, but it comes to business or things. I think people want it precise, exact, and short. And that's an art form in itself, you know, being able to write that precise and concise in short amount of time.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (36:38)

Absolutely is that's a lesson I needed to learn and continue practicing as a speaker, actually, because my weakness was talking too much. And if you saw that in writers, people writing too much, it's, it's really interesting. I think the skill is sometimes in your ride, being having less words, but still getting the point across. And it's like what we said earlier, there was that phrase that's four words.

It didn't, it wasn't, nobody remembers the whole however many minutes of that talk.

Nino Vincenzo (37:13)

No. He tells a funny

story. I don't know how true it is, but I read a story that he was very nervous. And he stepped back from the microphone to gather himself. And since he was a devout, I don't know if he was Christian or Baptist, one or two, he said, spirit came into me, that he surrendered to spirit. And it went back to the podium, the speaker, and gave those classic words. His voice was quivering, you know.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (37:21)

Really?

Nino Vincenzo (37:42)

But he said he was nervous and he said that spirit came through him. Because he backed up a little bit, I guess, from the podium and then spirit came through him. And I do believe in that. I I know it sounds spooky and esoteric to ⁓ people, the general population, but I've had some spooky things happen to me that have become sort of mainstream truth for me. And I know when I was teaching a lot of times...

Students would come up to me say well, I really liked what you said in class last week and I'm like, what did I say? I don't remember saying it It channels through unless it was something specific from a textbook question or a question about the assignment I really felt it was kind of channeling through me and You said you talked too much as part of your flaws sometimes me it's listening I think it was there's a I think that somebody wrote a book called the art of listening. I think was the Dalai Lama

And I know that my brain, always, you know, I get a little impatient with people. So when they're dragging stories, have a tendency to interject and I'm working on that mindfully to say, listen. So that's, I think even though I have in communication, you know, we're all sort of perfect in our imperfections, you know? ⁓ So I'm always working on listening more instead of jumping over the person.

You know, sometimes my brain works really quick, you know, so I think it's important to sort of know when to listen. It's like a good tennis match. You got to know when to serve and when to sort of hit the ball back. And then maybe there's a pause to continue, you know, but the gift of Gab has always come easy to me. I did when I retired, I sort of was kind of grateful not to talk anymore though, I have to admit. I don't know, I just needed a break from yakking.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (39:34)

Why?

Nino Vincenzo (39:38)

You know, it's a, I just said, ugh. So now I, you know, I'm, I'm, you know, I'm retired for the most part. ⁓ I'm always open to things that are, might entice me to get involved, but I'm pretty particular where I want to get involved in. ⁓ but I find wonderful days of silence. You know, from a person who's been talking for most of his life to those moments when I could just spend a

you know, in the swimming pool or in nature and I just don't have to talk. You know, I'm just becoming sort of an urban monk in a way. And it's nice. Although I do love a good conversation with people. I try to stay away from topics like politics because that ends up being something I don't really want to get involved with. And you know, it's sort of the reluctant guru. I've always been like that.

I think I do have a lot of wisdom from my experiences and from my teachings. Either book learned, I was a ferocious reader. It's like when people say, why are you religious? I said, because I did an independent study of them all. It wasn't just a thoughtless rebellion. I studied all the religions. Because when my brother passed away, I had a lot of questions. And my father died when I was young too, and a lot of pain in my childhood. So I just wanted questions.

It wasn't a rebellious act, it was thought out research and I realized first of all they're all saying the same thing in a lot of ways. The second of all, you just don't want to have to belong to a club. But like again, it was thought out and researched. I think if I was getting to your question earlier about what would I say to young people, I'd say be your own guru. Find people who assist you on the path, but be your own guru. Find what works for you, not what society says.

Because if you're always worried about what people think, you're always in prison. They're in And it takes a certain amount of person to just sort of break free from that. I mean, if you care about what other people think too much, and I used to say this in effective speaking classes, I'll light a candle on my shrine because that's a painful way to go through life. Caring about what people think of you. I said, and I would say something funny. I say, after five minutes, I say,

I talk about the psychology of fear and communication. And I say, how long have I been talking? And then one student would say, about five minutes. I said, you've probably had a million thoughts about me already. Right? Some of them good, some of them bad. When's this meatball going to shut up? Wow, he's interesting. So I was trying to have them understand that we all judge. But then I would twist it around and say, how many of you feel sorry for her or him?

Speaking right now the student and they they were very compassionate I said and also I told them the more you communicate with each other the more it's not gonna be as nervous because you're like I'm just talking to a couple of mates, you know my friends So but sometimes you don't have that as you well know sometimes you're talking to people you've never met before Which is I think just sticking to the script. It's the best way to go about it and and not worry about what they think because then that you you'll

You'll fail miserably if you care too much about what they think.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (43:04)

It'll make you too anxious.

Nino Vincenzo (43:07)

Totally, and I used to tell my students and tell myself, in the book I talk about my horrendous journey through panic attacks and anxiety attacks. So when people are going through that, the Buddha said that you can't really feel compassion for someone unless you've suffered yourself. That's why think people who are teaching should have suffered a little bit, or at least overcome something before they coach it. Does that make sense?

So I used to tell the students, I was brave. said, you know, I panic attacks and anxiety attacks and you know what happened after my brother passed away, because I think I had post-traumatic stress from it all.

So me saying that they'd be like you, I mean, you're up there sort of commanding the show and you're not nervous. I said, no, not really. I'm not that nervous, but I think if people can relate to your nervousness or your anxiety, and it seems to be ratcheted up. think some people, I think it's the media and social media. These kids are just, there's more mental health issues in the world than ever before. And I think people just get away.

You gotta shut the world off. You need to be in the world but not of it. You can turn it off, it's okay. Go walk barefoot in a park. That's really good for grounding you, you know. So, yeah, I've learned a lot. But still feel like I know nothing. But now I'm sort of the interesting time in my life. I'm just kind of waiting for the other shoe to drop, but I'm okay if it doesn't.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (44:42)

In what way?

Nino Vincenzo (44:43)

Career wise, having something to do. Remember I said stress never goes away, it just changes forms. So it's that, now what? What do I do now? I'm retired, I've written the books, I've conquered the world, I've had my successes. ⁓ Is that it? Yeah, like is that it? I just, so?

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (45:06)

I can relate.

Nino Vincenzo (45:11)

And my wife always says to me, just don't think about it so much. Because I have a tendency to overthink things like a lot of people. that's the questions that I pose to myself have always driven me in the past. But I had my Qigong teacher say to me, well, if you don't want to be confused, quit asking questions.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (45:34)

I

might do more of this for your next work, just an idea.

Nino Vincenzo (45:38)

Yeah, mean, part of me, you know, my wife's my biggest sort of, you know, pusher. She's like, you're a teacher, you're a teacher. And then part of me is like, I kind of flip flop because I'm like, I'm burnt out. I've been teaching for my whole life. And then I get discouraged with the whole trying to find people to teach. I'm not good at that. And I sort of I know, let go and say because the whole Internet, the social media, the posting my book, I'm just not very good at it.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (45:47)

to threat.

Nino Vincenzo (46:06)

You know, I just feel weird posting about myself. Maybe I'm humble to a fault, I don't know. Because I think you have to sort of get yourself out there and I'm not very good at it. So when I saw your post, I thought maybe if I just sort of people say, yeah, I'm looking for guests. I'd much rather have them read my book. But I sort of like the spontaneity of this. You know, usually people read the book and then they interview me. I was on a radio show.

A woman found me, she read the book. So she would say, wow, know, and tell me about when this happened and that happened. But ⁓ the book was just a way of hopefully people connecting through surviving grief in their own way.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (46:51)

think a lot of people should read your book, sorry for diving in. Everybody is going to, I reflecting on this recently, everybody is going to lose someone at some point because we're all not immortal.

Nino Vincenzo (47:04)

Yeah, and I think I talked about that in my second book and it was very satirical. I have this chapter on death and I said he's really lonely. Nobody wants to talk to him, you know? So I decided to have some tea and Madeline's with him and I just listened to him. I don't know why people don't like me. It's gonna happen to all of you. So I just sort of go off on this sort of satirical rant about why nobody wants to talk about death.

You know, I mean, so I had a funny joke about it. said, I think every day there should be a loudspeaker that says, hey, today might be your last day. So don't stress. Enjoy the moment. Every day a loudspeaker to remind you this could be your last day.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (47:54)

fascinating that you can make that point in a satirical context and laughing about it essentially because you would have learned that lesson early on when your brother suddenly died. I mean, it was just sudden and your father as well.

Nino Vincenzo (48:12)

Yeah, my father was very young, 44, and my brother was 36. I think it was harder with my brother because he was someone that was an accidental drug overdose. But it was, I think there were so many layers of it, which I won't go into here. I think everybody has, I call it in my book, the first chapter, fade to black moments. It's like the movies, the screen goes black and then it comes up and there's a new scene.

So I think I did use one of the chapters, the early chapters in the book to call it fade the black. Everybody has fade the black moments. And I think we're not taught those things in schools and parents. We're not really taught life. The Buddha tried and people still sort of intellectualize it but don't feel it. Like when he said life is suffering, my friend said, that's so fatalistic.

First of all, I'm not a Buddhist. I'm just influenced by a lot of Buddhist thought, psychologically and philosophically. But life is suffering. Like somebody asked me the other day, what advice would you give a young person? I said, expect the unexpected. Because you never know. You just don't know. And become your own person, which is difficult. can be influenced. Like Miyamoto Masashi, the great swordsman, said something perfectly. He said, respect the gods.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (49:26)

Absolutely.

Nino Vincenzo (49:41)

but don't depend on them too much. Same thing with technology. Maybe they're the new gods. You can respect them, but don't rely on them too much. That you need to be the person that's out there doing it. And finding your purpose in life, I don't think it happens at 20 years old. You know, like I didn't find teaching until I was 40. 40 is when I started teaching. I was busy being an actor and I was a bodybuilder and I was in magazines.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (50:02)

Really?

Nino Vincenzo (50:10)

a personal fitness trainer, one of the pioneers in LA. That's a whole different subject about where that went. And then somehow through synchronicity and it seems like the lowest points of my life, somebody up there likes me. Cause something synchronicity would happen. The wind would start blowing. I remember when I left the interview for the college, I said, and I was pretty much burnt out, not only from the stress of my brother, just from life in general and LA was just wearing me out.

And I said, if you want me to stay, bring me something. And the wind started blowing. I'll never forget it. The wind was blowing. So yeah, literally. So someone was answering like that time in the mountaintop when I started writing the book. I just went home. It was raining and windy in LA and I was on this mountain called Runyon Canyon. It's in Hollywood. If anyone's familiar with LA, they'll know it. And it just came pouring through. And then there was the cynical part of it where I would just...

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (50:48)

Literally.

Nino Vincenzo (51:09)

I would look around in LA and thought it's all pretty silly. In a very fatalistic way, like you're gonna die, you're gonna die, you're gonna die. Like I went through that morbid stage of everything you think is important isn't.

And that wasn't really good because I was becoming a little bit cynical and bitter, you know, telling people that the stuff they're worrying about doesn't matter. I'd do anything to have my brother back. ⁓ So.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (51:34)

How old were you when you had that attitude?

Nino Vincenzo (51:38)

Um, 35 in my mid thirties. So, you know, you're at the cusp of, you know, finding it. And I was very ambitious, driven, but my brother never really wanted to go along. We had success because I saw the act. We were twins. So the twin bodybuilder thing was really a good act that I was selling and he wasn't really into it. And we didn't really like being twins. It's all different. So, you know, I've been through a lot and other people have been through a lot too.

But it's what you do with it, I think. You could have suffered and you could... It's like when people overcome things and they become teachers, I commend them. They've suffered. And now they can help people avoid the suffering. So I think in that way, you know, it's just changing perception. And it's hard with communication, especially speech giving or presentation giving, because you really got to get into their psychology.

I even noticed cultural differences. Not to sort categorize, but the Asian cultures, they're really shy. So getting the Asian students that were from, they were foreign students, to give presentations was brutal. I would sit in class and be like, I'll just give you a C. Just go.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (52:54)

go back to something else if that's okay, because you're talking about the ages when things happened. And you said a lot about teaching the young people who are in college, but what really got my attention was that you were in your mid thirties when you became bitter and your brother died when you were 30, sorry, when he was 36. I'm 36 now and being in my thirties and meeting people in their forties.

I think there are one thing society doesn't talk about and we only have five or 10 minutes left, but one thing society doesn't talk about is that people reach a point in their thirties or forties where they are actually wondering what now and you had an experience of how you achieved a lot and you did all sorts of various things up until your mid thirties. And then it was long enough to then.

become a bit cynical and you needed that hope and you needed to have a next chapter basically.

Nino Vincenzo (54:02)

And I think there's a lot of next chapters. mean, I always.

You know, I always envy these kids that say, I knew I was going to be a baseball player when I was 15. But yeah, you had parents that fed that. You know what saying? I didn't have that. I was sort of an orphan. My father died. My mother was an immigrant from Italy. I was pretty much on my own. And I'm not blaming them. I've gone through the whole forgiveness of that. I do think that people, you know, it's like that old commercial years ago in the States there. It was gallow wine. We shall make no wine before its time.

was the advertisement slogan. So I think when people in their 30s are saying, well, I still don't know what I want to do. Well, maybe you haven't found it yet. You know, and I was, like I said, my early 40s is when I had, I found the teaching position, which I never set out to be, at 40. But I also had an experience of, you know, I worked a lot, a little bit, I put a dent in the acting with the TV and film and...

you know, the personal training I was good at, and then teaching sort of fed me for a long time. But, you know, some people just don't know, you know, and that's, and it's kind of different now. I mean, looking for a job, everything's different now. So I think people my age, it's a little tricky navigating this new age, you know, computer schools. And if they find out how old you are, forget it. Well, you're ancient, man, you know, we can't hire you, you know, so there's ageism, there's...

technical skills, but I still think besides it all. I used to do an exercise with my students, and I'll keep this brief. used to say, first five minutes of class, I'd say, introduce yourself to at least three people and have a conversation. They do it, laughing, giggling, and then afterwards I'd say, well, how do you all feel? And they're all shining. I said, you just made a possibility.

You made a possibility just now. That person you talk to is a possibility of a job, of a friendship. But if you never talk to anybody, but I don't know how it works now. People are, like I said, it's a whole foreign world that I'm trying to adapt to without becoming cynical. I think it's here, like you said. I don't think we're going to stop technology. And the basic human natural laws adapt or die.

But hopefully, and I'll leave you with this, is hopefully the old school communication still sticks around.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (56:28)

It does.

Look, thank you so much for all this wisdom and sharing all these stories.

Nino Vincenzo (56:38)

Thank you so much and I wish you good luck with your podcast and best of luck. Sounds like you're on the right track.