Desiree Simone on podcasting, informal advocacy, and authentic conversations

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (00:01)

Desiree Simone. Hello.

Desiree Simone (00:04)

Hello. We're gonna have so much fun.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (00:06)

We chatted before we stopped. This

is fun! We've been chatting a bit already, but how are you doing?

Desiree Simone (00:14)

I'm doing well, how are you?

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (00:17)

I'm all right. The first thing I wanted to ask you about is how you are enjoying life in Florida.

Desiree Simone (00:26)

Well, you know, we talked a little bit about this before recording. ⁓ You said, how is everything and how are you? And I said, well, know, Florida is falling apart, the state as a whole, but at the same time, the beach is lovely. So I do have that going for me, which is nice, but no, I'm really good. It is a beautiful day here and I really can't complain.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (00:30)

We did.

I think that the sunshine is a simple thing that everybody can appreciate. I had a few days of extreme sun over here and aside from trying to prevent a bit of sunburn, it's just divine.

Desiree Simone (01:06)

It really is. Sometimes you definitely need it.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (01:10)

You really do. What else is happening right now? Before we delve into your story, what else is happening right now?

Desiree Simone (01:18)

Well, I think one of the biggest things is we're going into the burr months. So we're going into September, October, November, December. And the older I've gotten, the more I realize I'm very much that girl who lives for this time of year. We're starting to get rid of all the hot summer clothes. We're doing more things indoors. I get to experiment in the kitchen. But then also Halloween is a big deal for me.

So now we're going into like pre spooky season. And then once we're in spooky season, like I'm the most obnoxious person in the world because I truly live for all elements of horror, Halloween and spookiness.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (02:03)

Is part of that a chance to dress up, decorate the place, celebrate? What else do you appreciate about this time of the year?

Desiree Simone (02:12)

You know, I'm very well-rounded with my spooky vibes. It's not just, you know, getting dressed up. It's not just doing the whole pumpkins. I am a big fan of horror movies. So I go like really in depth with horror films, but then I also want to go with my classics. I want my Nightmare Before Christmas. I want my Charlie Brown Great Pumpkin. But also around this time, you've got some really great series that are coming out, great movies, things that are streaming.

So I'm going to make some really great fun cocktails. I'm gonna pull out all of the soup recipes. I get to go to parties where I can dress up and then I get to watch some of my favorite films. Like it truly is one of my favorite times of the year.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (02:56)

cocktails are a theme for you. You mentioned you like a drink when you do your podcast and there's a cocktail at Halloween time. What are your favorite drinks and do you make them yourself?

Desiree Simone (03:08)

So I definitely make them myself. I'm a former bartender and a former food and beverage manager. So I have a very big extensive bar background. Also, my specialties are whiskey and tequila. So anything in that wheelhouse, I kind of nerd out over it as well. So normally, actually going back to the spooky season, there is a podcast that I follow, ⁓ Nightmare Before Film Street. And they do a whole...

preparation of films for the holiday. And they also encourage people to make themed cocktails and they made a fabulous cocktail book related to horror films. So I am the kind of girl who any excuse for me to make a type of new cocktail, I will do it. And then as far as my podcast is concerned, I usually have my go-to whiskey. We'll go back and forth with a couple of other things. But one of the things that I love about that and why I kind of got into that with the podcast,

as well as my coaching is that as a former bartender, one of the things that you will always notice is that when people go to bars or when people are sitting at the bar, they inevitably want to talk to you. They want to unload. They want to talk about their day. They want to talk about their relationship. so bartenders become like de facto therapists. So I'm sitting here making you a really great martini. You're telling me why you want to break up with your boyfriend.

There's a lot of conversation and then sometimes there's a lot of healing over tequila.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (04:38)

Interesting. The conversational side is something everybody can relate to whether they drink alcohol or not. I know that recently I was going to a gathering where there was a bar and my foot was cramping up the moment I got there. And when you are around the right people, you can be honest and real and say, my foot is cramping up or something is happening today. I'm showing up as much as I can.

Desiree Simone (05:04)

Absolutely. And you know, one of the reasons why I love the podcast and the format that we have it in is that I always wanted it to feel as less stuffy as possible. And I wanted it to feel like, you you get together with your girlfriend, hey, you know, I don't know if you're free next Saturday, but I'd love to meet for brunch. I've got to catch you up on everything. And so over mimosas, you might talk about the frustrations that you're having at your job.

Or you might talk about, I'm thinking about doing IVF and I'm really scared. You might have these really big conversations. so granted, not everyone drinks, but it's that whole idea of community, whether you're sharing a meal together, I think it's just as important. And so that's the thing that I love about the community that I've created with the podcast and definitely the one that I've created with my coaching clients.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (05:55)

amazing the sense of community that's a form of self-care that we all need. I think we are all social creatures no matter who we are even if we're shy we need people in some way do you think so?

Desiree Simone (06:08)

Absolutely. I think there is an inherent need for us to find some form of connection. It's been given to us from birth. We do not come into this world alone. And not only is connection so important, but finding the connection where you feel your most authentic self. One of the things I talk about, and I have a huge tenant in my coaching program, is that you need to find that tribe of people

who allows you to be okay with being the most loud, bold, and authentic version of you. And the moment that you find people that you have to diminish yourself or shrink who you are or be less than, those are not the people you need to be around.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (06:50)

that's really encouraging because there are spaces where we're expected to be the opposite of how we are. Maybe diminish the creative side or the quirky side or whatever it might be and then it feels like we're taking away part of ourselves but when you find the right people then you can you can let all the parts of yourself shine through.

Desiree Simone (07:16)

Absolutely. And I, my heart truly breaks for the people who I like to call them those conditional friendships where, you know, you can always rely on them for that really fun brunch or let's go to the movies or let's do all the fun things. But when things start to become difficult, when the going gets tough, you feel like you can't rely on those friendships, then those aren't real friendships. Those are not the people that you want to spend time with. And so

You wanna get less of those conditional friendships in your life and find the more true, authentic one.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (07:53)

Definitely. What sort of people, what sorts of people have you talked to on your podcast and what sorts of stories have you heard so far?

Desiree Simone (08:04)

⁓ this is such a fun question because whenever I describe my podcast to people, they're like, what is it that you talk about? And I'm like, well, it's a boozy personal development podcast. And we literally talk about everything. And when I say everything, I truly do mean everything. ⁓ We talk about all the things that help you be a well-rounded, better individual. And that can be a lot of things that can be talking about.

Financial therapy that could be talking about divorce that can be talking about sex and intimacy that can be talking about religion that can be talking about ⁓ Narcissistic abuse like there's so many things that we've talked about and big and small the podcast range from really funny and light-hearted to I've cried with my guests and again kind of going back to that idea of

you call your girlfriend, you wanna get together for drinks and have that conversation. That's what happens when you are connecting with someone. The conversation might start off with, I'm feeling really insecure about this dress that I'm wearing. And next thing you know, you're both are talking about limiting beliefs that you might've had as a child when you realized that insecurity was put on you by your parents. Or you're really wanting to go into the dating scene, but like men just aren't, they're just.

jerks right now and they're just dogs, but all of sudden, you know, it's your coworker and she looks really attractive and now you're questioning things. Like that is a part of a human connection that those conversations can just be so wide and so open. So when I tell people like the conversations that I've had on the podcast and the people I've had on the podcast, I'm like, there really is no one particular topic that we try not to talk about.

because in all facets of what helps us be better, more real, raw, live, bold, authentic individual, there are gonna be so many facets of what makes us unique. And I wanna be able to talk about all of them.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (10:06)

Right.

So your focus is on personal experience and I appreciate that so much because as much as we can look up to all the titles and degrees and so on that other people can have that can get us so far but those personal experiences and the very real stories especially the ones that we wouldn't

Desiree Simone (10:13)

and I appreciate it.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (10:36)

tell everybody all the time. Those ones are the ones that give us context in how we work with other people and how we relate to the world. We end up understanding other people more by hearing those stories. I'm wondering, how did you get started in podcasting?

Desiree Simone (10:51)

do you get started in podcasting?

So it's actually really funny. I have to give credit to my ex as a matter of fact. So, and this is also a perfect story on defeating limiting beliefs. So before the podcast was my blog, which I started in 2011. I started the blog as a way of healing after my divorce. I was married very briefly, not even a year.

but it was a really, really hard separation and a very emotionally difficult divorce. So, you know, early 2000s, I think everybody was on the blogging train and so I decided to do that as well. And so the blog really became like a form of therapy for me. But then I had my girlfriends who were reaching out asking questions and we were talking about dating and relationships and sex and what's going on online and...

You know, this is the start of Plenty of Fish at Match.com. So there was a lot to talk about. So then it became more of like advice. ⁓ I've always just granted being an only child, I've always had this big sister vibe, I guess. ⁓ And so that was the directions that the blog originally went to, excuse me. So I did that for several years, ghost writing on some other blogs.

The blog got picked up on some websites and did really, really well. But around the time of surprise, surprise COVID, I was with my partner at the time and I'd been telling him how I've been wanting to do a podcast for so long, but I just didn't think it was the right time. I didn't think I had a good voice, meaning I didn't think I had one unique enough for people to listen to. I'm going to be talking about the same thing that everyone else talks about.

I don't have the right equipment. I want to have the right setup. And he was just like, well, why don't you just start? Just start the podcast, however it looks. And it's so ironic that he pushed me in that direction because ultimately that's where I began the pivot, not only with the podcast, but with my own coaching. And so shortly after COVID, or kind of like in the, the end of COVID for us here, ⁓ 21, yeah, ⁓ we, he and I did the podcast together.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (13:05)

21, 22.

Desiree Simone (13:11)

Originally, it was called Break Bottles, Not Hearts. And it was basically he and I conversations that we would have together around dating and relationships. And again, he also has a boozy background like me. So he and I would talk over whiskey and we honestly started out, no lie, in my backyard, voice notes on my phone. Like that was how the first part of the podcast came out. And I kind of sort of cringed.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (13:39)

And that's what it

means for

Desiree Simone (13:40)

when I listened to

some of those earlier episodes. But then also I'm so proud because one of the things that I tell people all the time and it is because of what I went through with the podcast is just start. It doesn't have to be perfect. It doesn't have to make sense to anyone else but you. All I know is when we did those first few episodes recording voice notes on my phone in my backyard, I felt so excited.

I felt like I was doing something that was getting me super pumped up about my day and about my future. And so this whole idea of it had to be perfect. I just said, screw it. Like, we're just going to chuck it out the window because I was living in my zone of excellence. I was living my passion. I was doing the thing that I loved. I was doing it with my partner at the time. And so he and I were having a great time with the topics and the stories.

And then from there it just grew. And so I always love to tell people when it came to the evolution of the podcast, it might not have started perfect, but it was perfect for me.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (14:50)

Absolutely. It was perfect for you. And I can relate to that thought of, I really want the perfect setup, the equipment. I heard about podcast studios nearby, but I assumed maybe that's investing too much initially when I'm getting started. And when you start with a simple microphone, you wonder, is this enough? But then you're just finding all these doubts and

Desiree Simone (14:52)

Mm-hmm.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (15:18)

You just get lost in your own thoughts instead of just creating something at all. And I'm wondering if you can relate to the experience where the conversations that you gain from having a podcast that will outweigh the doubts of how my voice sounds and whether the tech is perfect when you're having these conversations. And I don't know if all of your guests are from one area or all over the world, but

It's amazing having these talks with people from anywhere, right?

Desiree Simone (15:50)

It really is. most of my guests, I'm here in Florida. So most of my guests are obviously here in United States, but we've had a few from Canada. We've had a few from the UK. I've had one in Ireland. ⁓ I am back and forth communicating with one from Australia and we're just like, we'll make it work. She's forever traveling. She just got back from Bali and then she's getting ready to go to Thailand for a few weeks. And I was like, just call me when you're done. ⁓

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (16:12)

Nice.

Desiree Simone (16:15)

But at the same time, it's like you said, the connections that you make in the podcasting world are so phenomenal. There are, as a matter of fact, I was actually just talking to my friend Dustin, who I like to call my podcast mentor. I met him when I was on his podcast. He's been on mine. We've gone back and forth several times, but we've had this great friendship, like this actual authentic friendship for the past close to two years.

And we just met each other in person earlier in August at a convention. But when we met in person, it was like we've known each other for a decade just because of the connections that we made through podcasting and these amazing conversations that I've had with people.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (17:03)

That's great. That's great. You can end up really chatty with some people and it's funny I had that experience as well. You can just feel like you're best friends with someone you just met.

Desiree Simone (17:14)

Yeah, yeah. I always want all my guests to feel that way. Like I said, matter of fact, I was just recording a podcast yesterday, the Spritz Girl Mindset podcast. She's based in Orlando. I'm based in Panama City Beach. So we're separated by about six hours, but I'm going to be in her area in a few weeks for our conference. She's already like, when you're here, call me, let's go have dinner. And I'm like, yeah, girl, let's do it. So you never know where those connections can happen. And

I've always told people, especially if you have a business, in mortal words of Gary V, if you're not on a podcast or starting a podcast over your own to find the connections and find this client, you definitely need to think about doing it.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (17:58)

Absolutely. It's so much more accessible than ever before. It really is. So it's really inspiring to see that you simply got started and you didn't wait to tick too many boxes or anything like that. I'm wondering, how do you choose who you have on your show? And also the other question I'm keen to ask is because I'm a little bit new to this. It's been a few weeks, so I'm really, really keen to ask how do you

I know, this has been barely three weeks.

Desiree Simone (18:31)

Congratulations! my gosh! ⁓ that's awesome. I love that for you.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (18:33)

Thank you.

And I loved that voice. That is the cutest. Yes. I think you must be around conversation number 12, something like that.

Desiree Simone (18:46)

Oh my gosh, I need to double check. I think I'm at 112 episodes. Yeah, it's crazy. It really, it honestly, it really does. It really, really does. So enjoy the ride. Enjoy it, Melanie.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (18:56)

Bye.

Thanks. I'm wondering how you organize it because I went a bit wild. I told the internet, just reach out and if it feels right, unless someone is just on a totally different wavelength, which is really rare, but for most of them, I tell them, okay, here's my calendar pop yourself in. I'm being way too accessible just because I love a conversation. But then I was doing recordings sometimes twice in a day, sometimes

every day for a week. How do you plan out what you're doing?

Desiree Simone (19:39)

Oh my God, I love this. I love that this episode is basically like a love on Melanie podcast episode. Okay. I'm gonna give you, I'm like, no, first of all, do not ever apologize. Are you kidding me? And darn sure don't apologize to me. Okay, okay, okay. So again, congratulations. It is so exciting that you're going down this road. I will tell you firsthand.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (19:46)

Sorry.

Okay, you are my new best friend.

Desiree Simone (20:06)

you're going to make some amazing connections with people that will 100 % if you're smart, will not only change your life, but they'll change your business. They will change your podcast and it's all, it all can be for the better. Now to answer your question as far as how to find the right people, at least for me personally, especially because my podcast is very much casual.

Again, it's supposed to feel like friends over drinks having a fun conversation or a deep conversation, however it goes. My first rule of thumb is, is this a conversation that I wanna have with somebody? Do I genuinely, Desiree Michelle, do I wanna have this conversation? Is this something that if I were out and about and someone says, ⁓ my name is Melanie and I'm in real estate. you're in real estate. What is the thing you do?

I sell beachfront property in Indonesia. Don't care. Not gonna go to Indonesia. Love that you're in real estate. Don't care at all. ⁓ my name is Melanie. I sell real estate. really, what is it that do? I specialize with a lot of first time home buyers. you know what? I am looking at my first home. This is a conversation that I'd like to have. So at least for me, that's one of my very first, and that was one of the...

very first rules that I gave myself when it came to finding podcast guests was is this someone that I can have the stomach to have a conversation with for at least 45 minutes and in the almost three years that I've had this podcast I want to say there's maybe been maybe three episodes where I thought this is like paint drying.

but three episodes and close to 100, I'm not complaining. So at the very first, I would say, is this a conversation that you wanna have? This is a minimum of 30 to 40 minutes. Do you have the stomach to have a conversation with this person? Secondly, what is it that you want the audience to gain from this conversation? Do you want this to be educational? Do you want this to be more entertainment?

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (22:17)

What?

Desiree Simone (22:21)

There's a lot of ways that you can look at every single episode. For me personally, I want a little bit of both, but I've definitely done episodes that are far more entertaining and tons of fun. And I've definitely done episodes where there's like a trigger warning. It's very emotional. It is very real. It is very raw. Not only do we drink on my podcast, but we swear. And I've never edited that out because if you're spending time with me for over an extended period of time,

And definitely when alcohol is involved, the potty mouth comes out, sorry, mom. She knows better. I tell her which episodes she can and cannot listen to. So my dad listens to them and then tells her what I talked about. But you wanna be able to say, okay, this is a conversation that I'd wanna have. And more importantly, I want my guests to either, or I want my audience to be either entertained or I want them to be informed.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (23:06)

What the?

Desiree Simone (23:18)

You can either sit here and say, want to focus on more information or say, I want to focus on more entertainment. You might also be like me and like to be able to pivot in both. But at the same time, I also encourage you to do your research when it comes to these guests. I've definitely done my research, but like I said, I had about three where it was just like, ⁓ my goodness. And sometimes, and I do know in the case of one in particular,

It was her very first podcast guest spot that she'd ever been in. She was so insanely nervous. She was so insanely scared. And she told me afterwards. And I wish she had told me before because I felt like I could have at least helped her. But you want to be able to have those conversations, vet your guests as much as possible, encourage them to listen to one of your previous episode. Sweetheart, please know I listened to several of your episodes already this morning while I was in the office.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (23:55)

And I wish that.

Desiree Simone (24:15)

and already followed your podcasts. So that way I understand what it is that you like, what it is that you enjoy with your guests, the kind of rhythm that you have. And so just enjoy the ride. finally, it's a long answer to your question, but I do love this topic. Finally, like I had with Dustin, find either a podcast or a podcaster that you can just always go to. Be like,

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (24:30)

Thank

Desiree Simone (24:44)

I volunteer as tribute. So you can be here like, Hey Desiree, I have a question. I'm thinking about batching a bunch of content. What do you think? What are the best ways to batch content? I'm using Riverside. Do you use it? Do you like it? You know, who are some guests that you recommend? The world of podcasting is like this really cool fraternity and sorority. There are the clicks. It really is. It really, really is. ⁓

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (25:06)

Really?

Is it supportive

generally?

Desiree Simone (25:13)

It really is. I have yet to find the dark side of the podcasting world. I've been so fortunate. I attended the conference in August because of my podcaster friend Dustin. And it was because he goes, you know what, I'm going to this conference in August. I think you'd be amazing. Let me go ahead and introduce you to the founder of the conference. Send them an email next so you know, I got free tickets. You never know until you get into that world.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (25:40)

Just?

Desiree Simone (25:42)

You start making those genuine connections and then you just go from there.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (25:48)

curious and I might edit out if we need to but what's the conference?

Desiree Simone (25:52)

No, don't.

So the conference, actually the conference is called Stimulate. ⁓ It is a business to business sexual wellness conference where there's also therapists, there are doctors, there's practitioners. There are obviously vendors that sell a variety of products ⁓ that go into the world of sexual health. And one of the reasons why I attended was recording episodes of the podcast, but also I suffer from an autoimmune disease called lupus.

And so something that's really important, and I'm in my, guess, oh God, to say this out loud, technically I'm now in my late 40s because I just turned 46. So I'm like, I'm in my, thank you. I'm in my late 40s. So for women in this age group, our libido changes. And so it was something between that and my autoimmune disease that was something that was really.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (26:30)

Thank

not have guessed you're doing okay.

Desiree Simone (26:50)

a cause that I felt very passionate about. And I've spoken about a lot on the podcast with therapists and practitioners, not to mention I've had a lot of trauma around that as a child. And so to be able to work through that is a conversation that I also really champion as well. And so this conference was allowing me the opportunity to meet some amazing speakers, doctors, therapists in that world and to make that connection.

And I never would have been to this conference had it not been from a connection from a fellow podcaster.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (27:25)

So a connection introduced to a new community.

Desiree Simone (27:28)

100%.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (27:30)

That's something to keep in mind. And I'm absolutely considering mapping out a way to connect all of my guests that have seen so far, because there's a group of them already. And we all are connected with different spaces in the world, different industries as well. And you've seen that too. You talked with guests from all sorts of different specialties.

Desiree Simone (27:33)

Yeah.

Absolutely. I've spoken to guests. ⁓ One of my dearest friends through the podcast world ⁓ is a death doula. And so ⁓ one of my bizarre inherent fears is dying and death and having her on the podcast and talking about death and grief and how people handle it honestly was extremely therapeutic for me because it helped me realize that one, I'm not crazy to hyper fixate on death as much as I do.

But also too, it gave me the outlet to understand that there are people here in the world who are like, I might be scared as well, but listening to this episode allowed me to connect with someone who works with people in the grieving process, who works with people in the actively dying process. And so would I have ever crossed paths with her in the real life or in the real world? Probably not, but because of podcasting I did. And I'm so, so grateful for that.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (28:53)

It brought you to find that person into that space. Death is such a topic in itself. And what's even connected with that can be things like grief. I'll nudge my camera this way a little bit. I think we can grieve all sorts of things and tied in with death. I think it's a great topic for you to explore because well, everybody dies eventually. so I think I was mentioning this on another episode with someone else that

Desiree Simone (29:00)

Mm-hmm.

Yes.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (29:22)

We're all going to experience losing someone eventually, whether it's later in life or earlier. And so we all have that journey and other cultures have more of a ritual of recovering. They might have a time period set to process that. And sometimes we don't have those things or we don't even have the conversations. Sometimes.

Desiree Simone (29:26)

Mm-hmm.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (29:48)

Sometimes in this society people just don't even want to talk about death. So we don't even know how to even set ourselves up for knowing the day will one time eventually come even if it's decades away.

Desiree Simone (30:04)

And again, with those big topics, that's what I love being able to talk about. I always like to tell people I was pretty much born with a big mouth and a big yapper. So it makes a lot of sense that this is what I do. But also I am hyper passionate about if there is the little person or the little kid being picked on, do not let me be around because I will be the biggest, most obnoxious big sister.

to toot my own horn, but I have taken grown men by the scruff and kicked them out of bars. You think I'm gonna let somebody bully, you think I'm gonna let somebody bully a podcaster friend of mine? Absolutely not. Are you kidding me? So I think that's one of the things that I love about this world of podcasting where you get to meet these people, but at the same time you get to champion their successes because all of us, if you're smart and you're not a jerk,

There is enough room at the table for us all to grow.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (31:07)

Absolutely. Absolutely. There's space for all of us to have these. And there's a never ending supply of conversations because we all have a story to tell. I adore what you're saying about being gutsy, having a backbone and my goodness, it is refreshing and encouraging because I think growing up as being the one who supposedly talks too much or is

Desiree Simone (31:33)

Hmm.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (31:35)

a bit too outspoken or standing up for people. You said that you have the desire and the passion to stand up for people and that can be very controversial. And it sounds like you've found a safe space to do that, but also you worked in an industry that encouraged that because people need to be okay. I'm wondering if you have any words for wisdom for people who want to stand up for other people more.

because it's needed. Maybe people are getting bullied in all sorts of spaces, especially in this day and age.

Desiree Simone (32:13)

I think if you feel called to be that advocate for someone, it is your God given duty to do so. And I wanna preface this by saying that standing up and being an advocate for someone can be in a variety of different ways. So it can be that person who literally speaks out, it can be that person who financially donates. Please know that your girl loves putting her money to good causes.

There is no way that I'm going to leave this earth not knowing I've not been able to help a cause. And if the least I can do is send a hundred dollars, I'm going to definitely do that. But also the way you can stand up for someone is also by defending them when they're not there. And I have had some phenomenal friends who over the years are like, well, you know, someone mentioned you and they said either this about your podcast or this about you as an individual. And I quickly said,

X, Y, and Z. And to know that you can champion someone even when they're not there, I think is a huge, huge thing that we can do as individuals that just really shows not only our character, but our empathy. And so this idea of, don't really know how to stand up for someone or I don't know how to really be an advocate. First of all, ask them, you know, ⁓ my, my ex fiance and majority of the men I date are Caucasian.

And so I feel like it's kind of like a given that you're going to be an advocate for me as a black woman. I've never been with someone who hasn't been, but the way that I've loved seeing that in my previous partners is to see how they are when we might go somewhere and someone looks at us or looks at me differently and to see them stick up for me and to see them support me and to see them show up for me on different holidays and show up for me when I have

25 different hairstyles in the course of a year because black women love to change their hair constantly. So I love that no matter what showing up and being an advocate can be as big or small as you make it to be, but finally it needs to be authentic. I need you to truly mean it. I don't need you to go to a protest with a handmade sign, but all I'm really seeing is you posting photos on TikTok or Instagram showing that you were at the protest.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (34:26)

You don't need to.

Desiree Simone (34:37)

That's fake. I don't want that. I want you to be genuine. If that's not genuine for you, but standing up is doing a letter writing campaign or financial donation, or in some cases, hey, I don't know what to do, but I made you spaghetti and I'm gonna drop it off at your house. That is authentic for you, then that is one of the best ways that you can be an advocate for someone.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (34:38)

in ⁓

The part of that that I adore even more is the idea of advocating and supporting people individually, because there are so many opportunities to support organizations and communities. And I think that is really crucial. I love contributing to little not-for-profit organizations and it doesn't have to even be money sometimes. And you said a small amount of money helps. I love sort of showing up.

once every month or two, something like that for a group that's trying to make a difference. And I can see that you're doing the same thing, but you also mentioned bringing spaghetti to someone. And I think we need more of that in the world. I can see that energy, that intention in your conversations, in your podcast, and also in the advocacy, because I think when someone goes through something, they're surrounded by

official structures of various sorts. And that can be useful, but we need, let me know if you agree that we need that personalized human connection, especially finding if there's someone who shows up, not because it's their job, as much as doing a job can help people. There's, there's something extra, there's something different about showing up for people as a friend. Do you think so?

Desiree Simone (36:24)

I was literally just having this conversation yesterday with Courtney from the spritz girl mindset podcast. Shout out to Courtney, where we talked about basically showing up authentically and both of us are girls from the South and we as Southern girls, know, food is our love language. One of many right next to college football. And so food is our love language and that's how we show up for people. And so we both talked about the idea of

Let's say someone came up to you and mentioned that they lost their job and you weren't sure how to show up for that person. Ask them. Maybe that person just needs you to listen. Maybe that person just needs to get things off their chest. Maybe they need to go out for a drink. Maybe they just need to sit in silence. There's so many things that we can do, but one of the things that I think is just frustrating is this idea that, well, we can't do anything.

or I don't want to ask, I don't want to seem to intrude. You have no idea what the person next to you is going through and how simply asking them how I can show up for you in this moment could radically change their perspective in that moment and in that timeframe. So until you ask, until you put out there that I'm willing to help, but please tell me how I can show up for you, you'll never know.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (37:49)

You'll

never know. Absolutely. I saw that coming up in the calendar really soon, at least over here. I don't know if it's everywhere. There's something called R U OK? Day. And is that not a thing in America?

Desiree Simone (38:04)

I've never, no,

I have not heard it, but I love this. I love this.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (38:08)

Okay,

you can Google that. It's simply called, are you okay day? And so look for the letters are and you and then okay, but it's a simple concept like the name describes. And I think it's cliched to say that every day should be, but it's nice to have those days that remind us that we should ask. And I think the people who are really connected with what's going on around them and with

Desiree Simone (38:17)

Yeah, yeah.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (38:38)

the truth and reality below the surface will ask people, say if someone is not doing their best work one day or something like that, asking, you okay? What's really going on? And, and hearing that food is your love language. I think that in some way it should be like that for everybody. And I don't think that you have to be a great cook to do that.

Desiree Simone (39:05)

No, it's the thought that counts. Are you kidding me? Yeah.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (39:12)

Absolutely. Even if someone can delegate the cooking or just get snacks for someone, anything. Because also, let me know if you agree as much as we love conversations and look, whenever someone is addicted to talking, you are on my wavelength, but sometimes someone else might not know what to say. Do you find that sometimes just being there and sitting and being present makes a difference?

Desiree Simone (39:38)

It really does. It really does. I remember a friend of mine, I went to go visit him when he was stationed in Hawaii and we had done this whole day of backpacking and traveling. And so to go back to his place, we had like a 45 minute drive. And we spent a lot of it just like in silence listening to the radio, just because it was one, we were tired, but also two, the scenery was great. It was just a really, really great time.

And we went back to his place and he said, you know, I really appreciate that drive. And I'm like, what are you, what are you talking about? He's like, you just didn't feel the need to fill the noise. It was a great drive. It was really great music. sat there thinking about, man, I had a really great time with you. Backpacking was awesome. Like it was just really nice. And I also knew that you were there with me at that time, but more importantly, you didn't feel like.

you had to talk that whole 45 minutes. And I thought to myself, I felt the same way too. I just never, I never put it to the same kind of idea that there is truly beauty sometimes in that silence and sharing genuine space with someone. So I very much encourage it.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (40:56)

You can be in this stillness and you can pause as listening to a different podcast where someone has these heavy conversations and that person every so often will say, can we just sit with that for a moment? And I mean, that goes a step further because I learned in public speaking to pause and to take a breath, but to really stop and let something sink in, even if it's for a whole

Desiree Simone (40:59)

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (41:27)

trip on a holiday, even if you're going for half an hour or more or whatever it might be, or if you're sitting on a couch for a while, we're going and going and going and we're off to the next thing and we don't, we don't give ourselves time to process things. And that probably comes back to what you do with the podcast and what this is becoming. We're giving ourselves time to process. even I like that I didn't set up a bunch of questions.

for this conversation, I sort of knew, we'll go wherever you want to go, that sort of thing.

Desiree Simone (41:58)

We love that!

We love that. And I will say that that works for some people that you have on the podcast. I'm recording an episode tomorrow with a professor and I very much have like my notes because I know his background. know the conversation and the talking points that we have, but I also tell people because it's supposed to feel like friends over drinks, we're going to chuck half these notes most of the time, but we're going to focus on the high points. And that's one of the best ways that you can kind of lean into podcasting at times.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (42:33)

of that the mix of both the hybrid of notes and improvisation. That's the way to do it. was doing a training a week ago and that was a similar idea. I started off with okay here are my points and then people wanted to hear about just a few other things and sure let's go with that or let's hop from this point in the list to that thing because when it's

Desiree Simone (42:37)

So great.

Mm-hmm.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (42:58)

When it's a bit more conversational, that's okay. And sometimes look, if you were doing a keynote and you really just wanted three neat things, then that's different. maybe that's part of what's so relaxed about a podcast that it's so much more conversational and she can go with the flow. But I think what I gained from not over preparing, I mean, I always find out, okay, who is the person and what's the background, but

you mention things that I'm not going to think of. You're going to mention things that aren't on your website. And so that sort of thing, it just goes in any direction. And to me, that's really fun. Maybe it's the attention span.

Desiree Simone (43:41)

She's like, I wanna talk about this, I wanna talk about that. And there's this shiny object, and there you go. yeah, shiny object right over here. But yeah, and again, that's where you kind of, you pivot. I've definitely had a few where I've looked at my guests and I've been like, we're gonna bring this train right over here again. Because as much as I love a good tangent, I do have some structure going on, right? I wanna be able to talk about your main core principles or whatever tenants is important to you.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (43:46)

Shiny objects,

Desiree Simone (44:10)

But that's where you as a podcast host need to steer the ship back to a lane that works best for you and your audience.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (44:18)

Yes,

absolutely. Especially when you might only have an hour or so. I wonder, I think this is half about caring for others and half about how to do a podcast. They're the two overarching things. Yes. You're a teacher.

Desiree Simone (44:31)

I love it, that's why I was like, let's do it, let's do it. We're totally, we weren't even going to

talk about this at all. I gave you talking points and this is called the great pivot and this is exactly what podcasting is all about.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (44:43)

Absolutely. So I'm wondering, do you set a time limit for your episodes? I prefer an hour, give or take maybe half an hour if we're not feeling all chatty, but how do you, some podcasts go for three hours. Where do you draw the line?

Desiree Simone (44:59)

Okay, so I always like to tell my guests that I shoot for 45 and I just noticed our clock here. So I'm like, boom, this is really, really great. I think I've only had a handful that I've had like that 35 minutes because it was just like, this is just, it's just not working. But for the most part for me, I always like to tell people 45 to 60 minutes. Like I feel like that's really great. 60 is really great for the podcasting world. However,

I have had a few episodes and they've been some of my absolute favorites that are hour and 30, hour and 40. I had one that hit the two hour mark and it was just great vibes, great conversation, great laughter. know, it's just, it's really hard sometimes when you just have that kind of guess. And then I've also had some that are like the 45, 60 minute where I'm like, okay, you know what, this is too good.

I'm telling you right now, you're coming back when we're doing a part two. And so you can also do that as well. But for the most part, the average for me sits at about 55 minutes for my episodes.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (46:09)

Right. Couple of questions there. Firstly, is it mainly the vibe that makes a conversation go longer? Is there something else that will make you want to have a longer conversation? And would you agree that we're getting a lot more flexibility in the podcast format compared to traditional media? We have that freedom to pick and choose the timing.

Desiree Simone (46:32)

You definitely have more flexibility in this type of genre when it comes to, you know, focal arts and wordplay and storytelling podcasts. You definitely have more flexibility with that. It is absolutely the vibe, the vibe of the guests, the energy that you're getting from the guests. But then also I've had very intellectual, very deep conversations where the podcasts went longer just because

the knowledge and the know-how and the way it was expressed by the guests was just phenomenal. ⁓ There was one guest and as a matter of fact, I met her finally in person when I attended this conference, Susan Bratton. I remember it was probably one of the most difficult podcasts that I've ever hosted because I realized I sat there the entire time just in awe of what she had to say. It felt like a master class and I didn't want to ask questions. I just sat there and was like,

I even said that to her when I met her at the conference, said, I am so sorry. I felt like such a dud of a host, but I really just wanted to listen to you speak because I felt like I was getting this intimate masterclass on this topic. And sometimes you have those people where the knowledge and the way they convey it is so thought out and so well done that you blink and there's 40 minutes. But then you also have those conversations where it genuinely feels like,

you are a long lost friend that I never knew I had and you believe in all of a sudden 50 minutes are done and your timeline and your script and outline is out the door because the connection is so genuine. Conversely, you have paint drying and you were looking at every single second and you're just like, let me just get to 30 minutes. Let me just get to 30 minutes. So you never know really there are a lot of

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (48:12)

.

You

Desiree Simone (48:27)

And I've, set this very often with my podcast in particular. There have been some episodes or at least some guests where I've reached out to them. I've done my research and I thought to myself, based on the topic of what we're going to talk about, I can tell this is going to be not difficult, but it's, I'm not going to be that excited about it. It might be a little too cerebral. I may have to trudge through it.

only to come out on the other side, blinking and all of a sudden it's 47 minutes and it was just thoughtful. It was provocative. It was genuine. So never judge a podcast guest by their cover or their social media because you can sometimes be truly surprised.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (49:16)

I can relate to so much of that. One thing I wanted to ask to see if you agree and if you have hints about this is that when you're trying to find that interesting conversation with someone to keep it flowing, I find that the personal stories or any sort of professional personal anecdotes, a detailed, this is what happened in this specific time. It can bring everything to life. And I don't know if you ever had guests

Who are trying to squeeze all the jargon in and they're trying to all the buzzwords in or something like that. You have seen that. And so I'd have my own ideas, but I'm wondering what you do in that sort of situation, how you can, how you encourage people to loosen up and show the practical relatability of what they are doing. I'm seeing a nod.

Desiree Simone (50:08)

I'm laughing because I'm like, that's the reason why we drank on the podcast. That is literally one of the main reasons why I'm like, you are encouraged to drink on this show. And I've had so many guests in the past who were like, first of all, no one's ever told me I could drink on a podcast. And secondly, it was so much fun to have this conversation with you over drinks because that really serious, heavy jargon conversation.

ended up being a little bit more relaxed when you're half of a glass of wine in. And so at least for me, and it's one of the reasons why I love the show format that I have and why I'm so happy that my guests have enjoyed it, that has been, that's why I was laughing. Cause I'm like, oh, that's easy. That's the reason why we drink on my show. I'm like, yeah, we're going to talk about these heavy topics. And I'm sitting here telling people, well, you might want to go ahead and have a glass and you might have the bottle nearby.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (50:42)

interesting.

Desiree Simone (51:06)

because I've definitely had some shows where the topics are just flowing and we're having a great time and it's in depth. And I just recorded an episode a few weeks ago and she goes, yep, pretty much done with the bottle. And I'm sitting here going, that was an hour and 15 minute episode. And it was phenomenal. It was phenomenal. She had wine, I had whiskey, we were laughing. She almost had me in tears talking about my mom. It was a...

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (51:22)

my goodness! What was it, wine?

Desiree Simone (51:34)

beautiful episode. But again, that's what works for me. That's that's my wheelhouse. But one of the ways that I definitely help people pivot is I do kind of try to find that one thing that is like a really good nugget from what it is that they've done in that long tangent. And then just try to move it into the next topic because you will have those people who are long winded. Hope to God I'm not one of them. But you will have those people who are long winded and you're like

This is really deep. going into the trenches of like some super nerdy stuff. Let's lighten it out a bit.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (52:12)

I I do want to emphasize that I am into wellness and as much as the Blue Zones experts will say a glass of wine is okay, I'm not telling my audience to get drunk. I need to put that on the record there.

Desiree Simone (52:23)

Do not,

do not. And we do the same on the podcast. Not only that, I also do a sober month. And one, I'm always an advocate of people who are like, oh, I don't drink, but I'll have this on your podcast. And I'm like, absolutely. If a guest tells me they don't drink and they want a mocktail, I'm like, let's talk about the mocktail that you bring because everyone lives differently. Like I said, I always do one month where I do like a 30 or 31 days of no drinking.

And so we talk about that as well, but it's still an idea of community. It's still an idea of I'm meeting up with my friend at a coffee shop and I just need to vent about my kid who has decided to, you know, destroy everything in the house and I'm a new mom and I don't know what I'm going to do for my sanity. And I'm the friend who's like, meet me at Starbucks. I'm getting you a double minty. You're getting the cake pop and a cake pop is for you. It's not for them.

and I want you to enjoy yourself.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (53:26)

goodness, sitting down for a treat of some sort. Even I love having the mug of tea for this. And you're spot on. It's about the community. A little hack. When I've had phases of not drinking alcohol at a bar, I would order a sparkling water with fruit juice because it's so easy. You know, they're going to have that. You do that too.

Desiree Simone (53:32)

Right?

A lime or something. Ooh, yeah, yeah. It looks the same. It looks the same. It looks the same. I

will do, especially in the months that I do like my sober month, I'll do ⁓ tonic water and a slice of lime because one of my go-to favorite drinks, depending on my mood, is tequila, tonic water, and lime. So tonic and lime looks just the same as a Blanco tequila and lime. I walk around there, ask them to give me a little straw. It looks like I have a cocktail. It's fine.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (54:09)

Yum.

it does. And it happens to be cheaper as per their

Desiree Simone (54:23)

And

it's cheaper!

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (54:25)

lot. But also, you're right, it's fun. And it can still feel like a treat. And that's accessible. But no, I

Desiree Simone (54:33)

Yeah. Yeah. And

I was gonna say, not only that, there are so many bars and restaurants and establishments who are leaning in towards the sober lifestyle and mocktails. So, you know, I have a girlfriend of mine who became sober a few years ago. And so one of my favorite things to do whenever we're getting together is I like finding the new bars or the new restaurants that are like,

we have a brand new mocktail menu and I'm like, let's go girl. We're going to try it all. So again, showing up and being an advocate for your friend. That's what I do when I'm with her. We're going to catch up and we're going to go to this bar because I see they make a phenomenal faux pina colada and girl I want to try it too.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (55:19)

Absolutely. Look, I love a good drink to chill out, but the mug tells really something and it reminds me, I do have a friend who's in recovery and really does not drink. And I know that when I was setting up an event, I wasn't then going to say, okay, everybody gets a drink at the door. That doesn't feel right to me. It wouldn't make sense. And so I'm wondering if you have any hints for people who are maybe

creating parties or events or anything and they want to maybe they enjoy a glass of something stronger for themselves, but they want to provide something for those who don't drink. Do you have any tips?

Desiree Simone (56:00)

So

I do have this question because my daytime background is in the world of hospitality and again, freedom beverage, catering and events. And so it is so important to be as inclusive as possible. You'll do catering events and you'll have people that are like, okay, well we need to make sure we have a vegan option or a gluten-free option. The same goes into the world of your drinks. And because sobriety and sober curious and sober cocktails are becoming such thing now,

it's no longer taboo and it's definitely not any, it's like you mentioned, they're going to have a lot of the basics already in most basic bars. So it is nothing to be able to go ahead and add that little extra, but then also depending on the event, your budget and your scale, create something that specialized. I've been to many weddings where there's been like a custom mocktail cocktail, and it's so nice to be able to see people go,

you know, thank you so much for thinking about me because we're gonna make sure we have a vegan option. We're gonna make sure we have a gluten-free option. We should do the same thing when it comes to our beverages.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (57:07)

Nice, a custom drink. That must be like such a treat. Is it a little bit fruity sometimes? What do people do?

Desiree Simone (57:11)

yeah.

It really is.

I mean, people can do a lot of things. I always like to tell people, especially one of the reasons why I even got into this industry, my bizarre superpower is I can go to your house and you're like, Desiree, all I have is this, this, this, and this. And I'm like, Melanie, stand back. What do you want? You want sweet, you want sour, what are you feeling? And I will create it for you, alcohol or no alcohol. I don't know how I developed my Superman skill of doing this.

but I've been this way my entire life. So it makes sense that I eventually became a bartender. It makes sense that I became a food and beverage director. It makes sense that I have a boozy podcast because it is my gift.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (58:01)

of what you're telling people here is they can figure out something with what they have, feel that way, about food.

Desiree Simone (58:07)

100 %

yeah and I'm the same way. Matter of fact I had a co-worker, bless his heart, he's younger and so he's definitely on a budget and he's like yeah well all I really do is have like rice and tuna and I'm like all you do is rice and tuna? Okay so we're gonna get some teriyaki sauce. Okay we're gonna get some salsa. Okay we're gonna do this. So this is what you're gonna do with the rice and tuna every single day for five days and by the time I was done he looked at me like...

I didn't realize I can do all that. Of course you can do all that. Of course you can.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (58:41)

Yes, people need to think outside the box. had a moment at the start of last year when I was at someone's house and there was pretty much only pasta and hummus. And I explained, that's a meal, the hummus becomes a pasta sauce. It's that simple.

Desiree Simone (58:56)

We

can do a lot with that pasta and hummus. Are you kidding me?

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (59:01)

I know. I know.

It's awesome to know you've had that same experience of people think they don't have much. It's almost like a modern day loaves and fishes in a way.

Desiree Simone (59:08)

God,

Yes, it really is. It really is. Do not tell me all I have is and then go from there because I'm going to be like, all right, I'm going show you five things that you can do with that all I have is.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (59:24)

It sounds like part of what you learned from your work back ground is how to be resourceful.

Desiree Simone (59:29)

God, yeah. Are you kidding me? 100%.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (59:32)

What else do people need to know about? Look, you need to give me a time limit at some point because I keep thinking of more things to ask. You're like a big sister.

Desiree Simone (59:37)

No!

You two

more questions, because you're almost at an hour. So you get two more questions. So you know what, as a matter of fact, I'm gonna act as your co-host. You get two more questions, okay? I want you to take your time and think about it. While you're thinking about it, okay, because I was gonna say, I'll give you some time, but you've hit an hour. You get two more questions, that way I won't bore you.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (59:46)

Okay.

Okay.

I my questions.

⁓ you would not bore me, but no, no. And now I think that an hour is becoming the good limit. I don't think I've brought it that much more than an hour ever, but okay. To bring it back to the main purpose, the two things that I wanted people to learn from you before we delved into how to make the most out of two items in your kitchen. go back to, we'll go back to, okay. It was about authentic conversations.

Desiree Simone (1:00:08)

You

Mm-hmm.

Nice.

Hahaha

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (1:00:36)

because that's something that you do and any more hints. So how people can advocate inauthentic conversations. And so maybe a go-to sentence or two that they need to remember about that. And any other sentence or two about what people can do if they are thinking about starting a podcast, but they haven't started yet.

Desiree Simone (1:00:59)

Okay, so let's start with authentic conversations and how people can be an advocate. The best thing that you can do is ask the very simple question of how can I show up for you? How can I show up for you? Not necessarily what do you need because that's a very loaded question within itself, but how can I show up for you? Do you need me to hold space? Do you need me to be silent? Do you need me to bring you pasta? Do you need hummus with your pasta?

Do you need a bottle of vodka? How can I show up for you? And if they respond with, don't know, then just sit in that silence because eventually it'll come to them. And if it doesn't, maybe all you need to do is sit in that silence. Your second question, tips for podcasts? Yep.

Your tips for your podcast. Actually, I'm going to big sister you for a moment. Melanie, first and foremost, congratulations for doing this. You've decided to go on this journey when so many people have said, one day I'll start a podcast, one day I'll get a microphone, one day I'll ask someone to be on my show. You are already steps, leaps,

mountains ahead of all the people who've said one day, one day, one day, because you're already doing it. You've also already done a phenomenal job because usually it is three episodes, three episodes that generally people say, you know what, I can't do it. But the fact that you're past your third episode, the fact that you're going out there and you're asking for guests, the fact that you are asking questions and wanting to learn

You were already leaps and bounds ahead of where you're going to be in the future. And the great thing is in about a month, two months, five months, a year from now, you're going to go back and look at these episodes and go, this is where I started. Now I'm not going to lie and sugar coat it. Consistency is hard. It is challenging, but if you decide to say to yourself, I'm going to show up in the most consistent way that works for me.

that is genuine and authentic for me, the greatest tip that I can give you as a fellow podcaster is make the consistency that works for you. You mentioned doing two episodes one day, I've definitely done that. And then I realized I do not need to do that because it can be draining. That's not my consistency. But if my consistency is recording once a week and reaching out to five people per week,

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (1:03:34)

I'm going to ahead

Desiree Simone (1:03:48)

so that I can show up and I still have fun doing it, then Melanie, you are in for the most amazing ride. And if no one has told you yet, I am so proud that you've started this journey.

Melanie Suzanne Wilson (1:03:53)

I'm sorry.

.

Thank you so much for the encouragement and for the advice, consistency, people can learn that about everything. We can apply consistency to whatever we do. Desiree, thank you so much for your time.

Desiree Simone (1:04:04)

You're welcome.

It's my absolute pleasure sweetheart, thank you so much.